Way to go homeowner!

[Jammer Six]

There's actually three kinds of people. Those who are good at math, and everyone else.

That out of the way, I need to add to my curriculum. I need to start teaching that carrying a gun doesn't make you invincible, and you can still be forced to do things, but it will hurt more.

 

[osterr1999]

When armed, you can not force me to do anything because I have the ability to meet any level of force you can equally. Thus, you can't make me do anything. If you remember, the British tried to force the Americans to bend to their will and fortunately for us, those men were armed and were able to meet the level of force the British used. This made us free.

 

[Jammer Six]

Osterr, there is always a higher level of force. Always. Even General Eisenhower was surprised by a locally superior force, and he had a lot more firepower than you do.

 

[osterr1999]

I guess I didn't realize there was a higher level of force than lethal force. What's higher than that? Super duper lethal force?

 

[The B]

Easy enough to put to rest if one wants to do the work really, just compare the names of shooters and those shot against lawsuits filed...if you have access to OJIN it should be pretty straight forward. From my point of view it costs me nothing to heed the admonishment, and it could cost me everything to ignore it.

I keep in mind that 82nd Avenue and Canyon Road in Beaverton are loaded with ambulance chasers who will happily accept a contingency arrangement with just about anybody; they lose nothing if their case falls apart...as the client covers all of the expenses, what have they got to lose?

Then I ask myself what incentive all of these instructors have in spreading a lie? Recalling that a civil lawsuit is not the same as a criminal prosecution and thus won't generate the same degree of media interest, if any at all...why would anyone not involved hear about it? Unless they go looking.

No, I have not gone down to the Multnomah County Courthouse and compared lawsuits and shooters, and I don't have access to OJIN...so to answer you directly:
I trust the guy I paid to train me.

I'm not accusing anyone of lying- it's just another one of those myths that gets passed down from trainer to trainee over and over. They exist everywhere, and are pervasive with old-school instructors in every field. Mountain guides love to tell people that mountain climbing closer to the poles is the same as climbing at thousands of feet higher closer to the equator- That climbing Denali is as hard as climbing 8,000m peaks in the Himalaya, because centrifugal force of the earth's rotation thins the atmosphere at the poles. It's true that the atmosphere IS thinner at the poles than it is at the equator- but only by about 60' worth of pressure. Not thousands.

Old myths die hard.

 

[tlfreek]

No, YOU are missing the point. Under current circumstances and laws, one should almost NEVER pull a gun. I'm just pointing out the unintended consequences societallyof reducing the number of factors that might inhibit a thief. You can never only do one thing.

i have no idea what you're driving at here.

 

[Ownerus]

i have no idea what you're driving at here.

I'm saying a society where committing a certain type of crime is very likely to get you shot will have less of that crime than a blame-the-victim society where shooting said criminal is a worse offense and punished more harshly than the original crime.

As for never shooting someone over property; Some years ago, near where my parents lived, a couple of punk dirtbags decided to burglarize a house. Just after property. Unfortunately, the 12 year old son of the family was sick and home from school. Fortunately, he was unarmed and so didn't make the mistake of placing a higher value on his property than on human (or sub-human) life. I'm sure that if he had he would have been raked over the coals by the courts and certain members of this forum. Unfortunately, the scumbag burglars DID place a higher value on property than life. They cut the boys throat, killing him, to eliminate the witness.

Granted, not all property crimes warrant a deadly response but you never know when you are actually protecting more than just property since a lot of property crimes like burglary can turn unexpectedly violent. In my opinion, the evaluation of property being worth risking a life is the criminals decision, not the victims. Too bad that in many places the law doesn't see it that way

 

[The B]

the evaluation of property being worth risking a life is the criminals decision, not the victims. Too bad that in many places the law doesn't see it that way

And this is what it all comes down to. Criminals know that if they enter a dwelling uninvited, they're putting lives at risk, because they know there's a high likelihood of being shot for it. But they chose to do it anyway. This is already a blatant challenge to somebody's life. Whose life? His? No- probably mine and my family's.

Burglary, car-jacking, mugging, ATM robbery- I don't get the luxury of waiting to find out. When he makes his intentions known to me, it'll be in the form of action. Guess we should wait till we have a knife in our gut or holes through our chests to decide to defend ourselves.

 

[bikejunkie]

I hope nobody ever threatens me or my family, but it is my intention that if it goes down that someone breaks into my house I'll wait at the top of the stairs where all the bedrooms are, and they can loot the first story while we wait for the cops, but if they take one step up the staircase they won't leave my home under their own power because I'll drill them.

 

[Crispy]

Soberups, I appreciate the defense, and I appreciate your sentiment. To clear this up, and prevent further mayhem in this thread, I'll just point out that I meant what I said, and, unfortunately, none of it was sarcastic or satirical.

Life is much simpler once you know yourself. Watching other people, it strikes me quite often that they're fighting two battles, one, whatever battle they're engaged in, and two, a much tougher battle with themselves, with who they really are fighting who they think they want to be.

For the record, and speaking for the group of us, cowards go home a lot more often than heroes, and we go home much earlier. You'll never find me engaged in "good ole fisticuffs", you'll never find me in a confrontation after I flipped someone off. I treat everyone with respect, I treat everyone as if they had a weapon, because carrying one has taught me that I have no idea who has one and who doesn't, and there's no way to tell whether this tiny little woman puts 500 rounds of lead downrange a week or not.

What I taught my son is that it takes a lot more balls to be who you are than it does to bray about who you think you are.

Carrying a weapon changed my life. There is no more gray. There is polite, gracious conversation, and there is gunfire, with nothing in between.

If you're a hero, you have my sympathy. I would suggest that you be careful, because you can't recognize one of us by looking at us or talking to us.

And we're going to go home on the night you don't.

You must be a fun person to have a cup of coffee & a conversation with... Hope that anything we might disagree on does not come up.

Huh. I get paid to train people.

As a result, I'm pretty careful what I say, and I make certain I can back up what I say. And, as a result of that, I don't teach that you will be sued, because I've never seen any evidence of such a claim.

I don't have access to any of the services that would compare shooters to lawsuits filed, but there have been a couple shootings right here in Seattle recently, including one that was pretty clearly self defense, with a trained shooter. At least, I think he was trained, he told the cops he wasn't trying to kill the bad guy, he was trying to stop him.

I'd be very interested if someone can follow up on shooters and lawsuits.

You say you get paid to train people, I pose this question again. Where? What company/dept do you represent? (This is an opportunity for you to get a free plug in for your company or Dept.)

 

[Jammer Six]

You say you get paid to train people, I pose this question again. Where? What company/dept do you represent? (This is an opportunity for you to get a free plug in for your company or Dept.)

I suggest you pose your question a third time.

After all, there is a superstition that the third time is the charm!

 

[Redcap]

I suggest you pose your question a third time.

After all, there is a superstition that the third time is the charm!

Beetlejuice, beetlejuice, beetlejuice...!

 

[Crispy]

I suggest you pose your question a third time.

After all, there is a superstition that the third time is the charm!

Yeah I doubt that you will answer. You continually say that you train people, so I'll continue to ask. Its a vicious cycle

 

[Jammer Six]

Okay. It's your learning curve.

Personally, I'd keep it hidden, but I'd never presume to tell you how you should be.

Oh, I train people. About guns. For money. Usually a hundred an hour, although I've been offered more.

What do you do?

 

[Crispy]

Okay. It's your learning curve.

Personally, I'd keep it hidden, but I'd never presume to tell you how you should be.

Oh, I train people. About guns. For money. Usually a hundred an hour, although I've been offered more.

What do you do?

LOL you make me laugh Jammer. Got your chest all pumped up and making assumptions about someone you do not know. Very "respectful" of others, as you claim to be. Congratulations on training people. About guns. For money. Usually a hundred an hour. Although you have been offered more. I see you have your ego out.

 

[Jammer Six]

Respectful? Of people? You must be kidding.

I respect all dogs more than most people.

Except pit bulls. I don't trust any pit bull holstered.

 

[iusmc2002]

Respectful? Of people? You must be kidding.

I respect all dogs more than most people.

Except pit bulls. I don't trust any pit bull holstered.

You don't respect most people, yet you train people on guns, for money. Which you could obviously have gotten more for, but that's a different learning curve or something. You don't respect them, but you'll take their money. Or is it only the people who help inflate your ego, that you respect?

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I don't agree with using a weapon to "defend" property.

I've been 'jacked. I was armed. I let them take the car, because that's not what weapons are for, unless you're a poser.

Carjacking is a federal felony and can carry the death penalty.. if anyone tries to carjack me they are taking hot metal

 

[Vantage]

It's Kristen Stewart and Charlize Theron!!

 

[Intention]

Okay. It's your learning curve.

Personally, I'd keep it hidden, but I'd never presume to tell you how you should be.

Oh, I train people. About guns. For money. Usually a hundred an hour, although I've been offered more.

What do you do?

Seems the Zen master has had the pebble snached out of his hand. Actually I was routing for ya but after 5 pages of attack you folded like a camp cot. Thanks to all for another entertaing thread.