Water emergency in Salem

[etrain16]

So long as the toxins contained within the organism, yes. Boil the water or otherwise anything that releases it and no. Like you say it's still better than drinking it straight if you need to.

Thanks for relaying the info!

Not sure if you caught it though - but they're saying their 2-stage filters (with the activated carbon capsule), will remove 80-85% of the actual excreted (released) toxins. That's a pretty good result in my book, at least for emergency use.

One note on their carbon capsules - while their LifeStraw Steel is good for 1,000 gallons, the carbon capsule is only good for 100 gallons. But, they are replaceable, so it would be good to have extras on hand.

 

[Geardo]

Not sure if you caught it though - but they're saying their 2-stage filters (with the activated carbon capsule), will remove 80-85% of the actual excreted (released) toxins. That's a pretty good result in my book, at least for emergency use.

One note on their carbon capsules - while their LifeStraw Steel is good for 1,000 gallons, the carbon capsule is only good for 100 gallons. But, they are replaceable, so it would be good to have extras on hand.

Not the same brand, but I have a Sawyer squeeze + carbon filter inline, and I really like it. Probably time to replace it, I will check out their filters.

 

[etrain16]

Not the same brand, but I have a Sawyer squeeze + carbon filter inline, and I really like it. Probably time to replace it, I will check out their filters.

I've looked at those too, but didn't see anything on their site about removing the algae toxins like those in Salem. Probably need to email them with the same question and see what they say.

 

[OldBroad44]

On another note, when this all started, I emailed LifeStraw about the ability to filter these toxins. I finally got a response last night. Here it is:

Apologies for the late reply to this email and thanks for reaching out!

Green/Blue algea creats microcystins, a kind of cyanotoxin produced by cyanobacteria. This can be in water as an intracellular toxin (inside the cell) and extracellular (excreted out of cell and dissolved into the environment).

>95% of cyanotoxins in water are intracellular toxins (meaning the toxins are inside the cells) and the remainder are extracellular (excreted outside the cell). The LifeStraw Family hollow fiber membrane purifier can remove intercellular toxins by removing the algae from the water. All LifeStraw products contain a hollow fiber membrane filter.

The carbon filters in some of the LifeStraw products with 2-stage filtration can absorb/reduce 80-85% of the remaining excreted extracellular toxins. The following LifeStraw products contain carbon filters in addition to the hollow fiber membrane filters:

• Steel
• Universal
• Go 2-stage
• Flex
• Play

The LifeStraw Family will provide a high level of protection but the broadest range of protection are the individual products with the microbiological filter and the carbon filter.

Hope this helps.

Thanks,

Alison

So I guess it's good to know, in an emergency, LifeStraws (the 2-stage models), can give you relatively safe drinking water, even with the toxins present.

Useful info, but I think the company's interpretation is overly cheering. Actually, the living cyanobacteria don't synthesize microcystins at all. So there aren't any "intracellular" microcystins. Microcystins are formed when the cells die, and dead cells normally lyse, that is, develop tears and release all or some of their contents. However, much of the microcystins remain bound to the cellular debris. And this cellular debris would, indeed, be removed by the lifestraw filters. However, we were talking about contaminated tap water, which has already been processed to remove such bacterial sediment. So the fact that lifestraws remove particulate debris is of no help in purifying tap water. If you had no choice but to drink the water right out of an affected lake, however, the lifestraws or any filter that removes bacteria and bacterial debris would help a good bit. But it wouldn't remove the water solubilized microcystins, which are what you have in tap water unless there is an additional process such as an activated charcoal component.

As for an activated charcoal filter that removes only up to 85 percent of the water soluble microcystins, I just wouldn't consider this adequate. It would certainly help if there were no other options. Some of the sites the HEalth Department tested had well over ten times higher microcystin levels than what is considered safe. For those sites, removing 85 percent of the microcystins would still leave you with unsafe water. It would help, obviously, and would be sufficient where the contamination level is lower.

Because of the fact that most of the microcystins bind to the dead bacteria and debris, if you were forced to use water straight from an affected lake, anything you do to remove the particulate stuff--the mud and sludge--would help. Even just leaving the water a day and letting the particulate stuff settle out would help a good bit. As would any filter that removed particulates.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

On another note, when this all started, I emailed LifeStraw about the ability to filter these toxins. I finally got a response last night. Here it is:

Apologies for the late reply to this email and thanks for reaching out!

Green/Blue algea creats microcystins, a kind of cyanotoxin produced by cyanobacteria. This can be in water as an intracellular toxin (inside the cell) and extracellular (excreted out of cell and dissolved into the environment).

>95% of cyanotoxins in water are intracellular toxins (meaning the toxins are inside the cells) and the remainder are extracellular (excreted outside the cell). The LifeStraw Family hollow fiber membrane purifier can remove intercellular toxins by removing the algae from the water. All LifeStraw products contain a hollow fiber membrane filter.

The carbon filters in some of the LifeStraw products with 2-stage filtration can absorb/reduce 80-85% of the remaining excreted extracellular toxins. The following LifeStraw products contain carbon filters in addition to the hollow fiber membrane filters:

• Steel
• Universal
• Go 2-stage
• Flex
• Play

The LifeStraw Family will provide a high level of protection but the broadest range of protection are the individual products with the microbiological filter and the carbon filter.

Hope this helps.

Thanks,

Alison

So I guess it's good to know, in an emergency, LifeStraws (the 2-stage models), can give you relatively safe drinking water, even with the toxins present.

if anything youre more than welcome to stop by my house and fill up containers if need be.

 

[etrain16]

if anything youre more than welcome to stop by my house and fill up containers if need be.

I appreciate that! We're already stocked with extra water for just such events. Thankfully we don't wait until it happens to be ready

 

[etrain16]

Useful info, but I think the company's interpretation is overly cheering. Actually, the living cyanobacteria don't synthesize microcystins at all. So there aren't any "intracellular" microcystins. Microcystins are formed when the cells die, and dead cells normally lyse, that is, develop tears and release all or some of their contents. However, much of the microcystins remain bound to the cellular debris. And this cellular debris would, indeed, be removed by the lifestraw filters. However, we were talking about contaminated tap water, which has already been processed to remove such bacterial sediment. So the fact that lifestraws remove particulate debris is of no help in purifying tap water. If you had no choice but to drink the water right out of an affected lake, however, the lifestraws or any filter that removes bacteria and bacterial debris would help a good bit. But it wouldn't remove the water solubilized microcystins, which are what you have in tap water unless there is an additional process such as an activated charcoal component.

As for an activated charcoal filter that removes only up to 85 percent of the water soluble microcystins, I just wouldn't consider this adequate. It would certainly help if there were no other options. Some of the sites the HEalth Department tested had well over ten times higher microcystin levels than what is considered safe. For those sites, removing 85 percent of the microcystins would still leave you with unsafe water. It would help, obviously, and would be sufficient where the contamination level is lower.

Because of the fact that most of the microcystins bind to the dead bacteria and debris, if you were forced to use water straight from an affected lake, anything you do to remove the particulate stuff--the mud and sludge--would help. Even just leaving the water a day and letting the particulate stuff settle out would help a good bit. As would any filter that removed particulates.

While my understanding of this is far less than yours, I would still avoid the water unless there was no other option. And if the carbon filter can remove say, up to 85%, in an emergency, I'd take it over nothing. Hopefully we'll never be in such a position.

If I had no choice but to use a stagnant water source like a lake, I would do what you suggested - let it settle first. But then I would probably also try and put together my own pre-filter with say some clean sand (if I have it), some sort of cloth material, etc., to try and get the big stuff out first - then put it through my LifeStraw, etc. Anything to help improve the process. I've found some good resources online showing how to make decent emergency filters using stuff in nature. Again, not the best choice, but in an emergency, it's good to know.

 

[OldBroad44]

While my understanding of this is far less than yours, I would still avoid the water unless there was no other option. And if the carbon filter can remove say, up to 85%, in an emergency, I'd take it over nothing. Hopefully we'll never be in such a position.

If I had no choice but to use a stagnant water source like a lake, I would do what you suggested - let it settle first. But then I would probably also try and put together my own pre-filter with say some clean sand (if I have it), some sort of cloth material, etc., to try and get the big stuff out first. Anything to help improve the process. I've found some good resources online showing how to make decent emergency filters using stuff in nature. Again, not the best choice, but in an emergency, it's good to know.

I agree completely. Given the option, I would use bottled water rather than depending on any filter. If forced to use water from a contaminated lake, I would start by wading in to a spot that was as clear as possible of algal sludge, then use various methods to get rid of the particulate material before filtering it further with whatever filters I had available.

 

[PiratePast40]

Thanks for going to the trouble to research the subject. People also need to understand the time factor and volume involved with any of the filtration and adsorbtion methods. Filters, by their very nature, become laden with the contaminants and need to be replaced, or the contaminant removed periodically. Same with carbon adsorbers. There is a finite number of surface area capable of adsorbtion, and the media may de-sorb when the surfaces become full. Carbon adsorbers also have a finite shelf life, especially once open to the atmosphere. The advantage of carbon, especially activated and treated carbon, is that it adsorbs many substances. The disadvantage is that it will adsorb many many substances and may become depleted before the substance of interest ever reaches it.

Not that filters and adsorbers don't work, it's just you need to understand that they have limitations and require maintenance and monitoring.

I believe that the hospitals are using a combination of hyperchlorate (chlorine), UV light, and reverse osmosis systems. If you really want to have legitimate long term treatment, it'll take more than basic systems.

 

[3MTA3]

I appreciate that! We're already stocked with extra water for just such events. Thankfully we don't wait until it happens to be ready

I haven't checked yet, but odds are that the people I ran water to last week drank it all and never thought about stocking up "just in case". My MIL actually inquired if there was a deposit on the gallon jugs, and I guarantee that if there had been she would have dumped the water to get the deposit.

 

[etrain16]

I haven't checked yet, but odds are that the people I ran water to last week drank it all and never thought about stocking up "just in case". My MIL actually inquired if there was a deposit on the gallon jugs, and I guarantee that if there had been she would have dumped the water to get the deposit.

Good point. I'll bet once they got the 'all clear' most of them went about their lives, never expecting to get the warning again - just a few days later. I think very few people ever learn from their experiences. Just too few challenges of that kind in most folks' lives to bother to think about it beyond the now.

 

[Tony617]

I guess I need to upgrade my LifeStraws since I have the original single stage ones.

 

[etrain16]

I guess I need to upgrade my LifeStraws since I have the original single stage ones.

Same here. Though for normal filtering, without the algae/toxin, the original is still a good choice.

 

[Tony617]

Same here. Though for normal filtering, without the algae/toxin, the original is still a good choice.

Yes they are better than nothing and I keep 2 of them in each of my earthquake kits.