Washington State; open carry question / interpretation

thorborg

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A little verbose, you may want to skip to the question below.
An Oregon resident, I renewed my CC for Washington April 6th. slightly 30 days before it was due to expire. i had not yet received it at day 53 ( a few days ago) so I called, and was told by an apparently miffed officer in no uncertain terms they had 60 days to get it to me! When I tried to appeal to her explaining I need to go to Washington this week end and it was expired, she began to chastise me for not applying earlier than the 30 plus days repeating even louder, the 60 day rule.
I then told her the last time I reissued it, it was 90 days early, and I essentially lost three months (prorated) from my fee as it does not reissue on the anniversary date of original application, but when you apply for the reissue. When i asked about it then, I was told I should have waited till a couple weeks were left, to get the most for my money. This did not sit well with her, and she actually said " what was said then doesn't apply, we have 60 days! You can Open carry till then, or go without. "


I'm not for going out of my way to antagonize nor distract folks with showing my gun unless in the woods where I know there others of my ilk. So to open carry in washing is not an option but fortunately I also have A Utah which i believe may cover me, and making the questions moot, but it started me to wondering:

As a reference, Concealed carry;

If I have three inches of my holster showing below my coat line then it cannot be considered as "Concealed" I got that.
Question :
Open Cary;
So,
If I have three inches of my holster showing below my coat line ( the top behind the coat) then can it be considered "Open carry" ???

I found some legal explanations suggesting different states have different definitions of what is open, and what is not.
I couldn't seem to find the definitive answer for Washington.
Anyone know "for sure" (For Washington State) how much of the gun or holster (or little) must show to be considered "open" carry? Or are coats not an option while open carrying?
If I can get by with just the bottom three inches showing, I might consider open carry in an urban environment (for just this one time at least)
Thanks for any knowledgeable opine you may have.
 
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If it were me, I would not feel comfortable rolling the dice that I would get an officer who knew the law well enough to understand 3 inches is not concealed. Or god forbid your shirt shifts for some reason and now you only have 2 inches showing. Or the cop challenges you and says you only have 2.5 inches showing and not 3".

If I were also a betting man, my bet is you WOULD be contacted by law enforcement if you were fully OC'ing...but that may depend on where you're going to be in WA. The point is you just don't see many people OC'ing in the bigger cities so I'm betting you would get LEO attention.

I think your Utah Permit is your best option. Hopefully there is reciprocity. :)
 
My understanding of concealed carry in WA State is that if someone can discern that you are armed, then it is no longer considered concealed carry.
That is, if you're printing, you're not carrying concealed any longer, you are essentially open-carrying.

I think your Utah Permit is your best option. Hopefully there is reciprocity. :)
Yes, UT has reciprocity with WA, as well as many others, but with a restriction. You must have a regular UT CCW permit, not a provisional permit.
See here: USCCA Reciprocity Map
This is just one source. There are many others.
 
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Federal Way Chick Fil-A had a guy inside open carrying about a year ago (I was there at the time and no, it wasn’t me). Guy casually ate his sandwich at a booth. Got up, threw his stuff in the trash and left. No one said anything to him and frankly most people are just to oblivious and self absorbed to notice things on hips like that.

While still open carrying, you could wear a black shirt, a black gun and holster backgrounded by a black shirt makes things even less obvious, while still legally open carrying.

Sadly, the only way to “normalize” open carry is for people to do it more, the more people are respectfully open carrying and not being jerks about it the more it will become a non-issue.
 
OP
thorborg

thorborg

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The car carry was a good point to ponder in my theoretical musings..

To be clear, quoting from my first post, " to open carry in washing is not an option"

My Utah permit is the regular issue. At the time of issue, and up to last year when i checked, was good in WA.
That said, just like the info verbally given to me by the Wa. sheriff department which was reneged, Any opinions or laws dealing with firearms has a tenuous life so must be constantly vetted.

As an aside, for those of us holding other states permits or those considering them. Since I first received my out of state Utah permit, the envelope of Reciprocity has narrowed a little for them, and also increased for Idaho. Still, A change in reciprocity agreements between some states are now only for residents from "state of issue", leaving out of state permit holders with a smaller field to roam.
This emphasizes the "check before you leave" importance.
 

ma96782

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Federal Way Chick Fil-A had a guy inside open carrying about a year ago (I was there at the time and no, it wasn’t me). Guy casually ate his sandwich at a booth. Got up, threw his stuff in the trash and left. No one said anything to him and frankly most people are just to oblivious and self absorbed to notice things on hips like that.

While still open carrying, you could wear a black shirt, a black gun and holster backgrounded by a black shirt makes things even less obvious, while still legally open carrying.

Sadly, the only way to “normalize” open carry is for people to do it more, the more people are respectfully open carrying and not being jerks about it the more it will become a non-issue.
And then you have the Starbucks Stores with their policy.

I see them like politicians......

"I believe in the 2nd A but......."


Aloha, Mark

PS......blast from the past.

“Recently, however, we’ve seen the “open carry” debate become increasingly uncivil and, in some cases, even threatening. Pro-gun activists have used our stores as a political stage for media events misleadingly called “Starbucks Appreciation Days” that disingenuously portray Starbucks as a champion of “open carry.” To be clear: we do not want these events in our stores. Some anti-gun activists have also played a role in ratcheting up the rhetoric and friction, including soliciting and confronting our customers and partners.

For these reasons, today we are respectfully requesting that customers no longer bring firearms into our stores or outdoor seating areas—even in states where “open carry” is permitted—unless they are authorized law enforcement personnel.”


-Howard Schultz, Starbucks Chairman, President, and CEO

later modified to......

“I would like to clarify two points. First, this is a request and not an outright ban. Why? Because we want to give responsible gun owners the chance to respect our request—and also because enforcing a ban would potentially require our partners to confront armed customers, and that is not a role I am comfortable asking Starbucks partners to take on. Second, we know we cannot satisfy everyone. For those who oppose “open carry,” we believe the legislative and policy-making process is the proper arena for this debate, not our stores. For those who champion “open carry,” please respect that Starbucks stores are places where everyone should feel relaxed and comfortable. The presence of a weapon in our stores is unsettling and upsetting for many of our customers.”
 
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I dont know. I used to go shooting out in the Wenas wildlife area out by Yakima once or twice a week. I'd never bother taking my gun belt off and on the way home i'd stop by the store and everywhere else and no one would ever say anything about the two ivory handled Colt 45's on the cowboy rig. People don't care as much as you think they do.
 

ma96782

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Open carry an AR?

Your choice.

But, imagine (Portlandia, OR June 2020).....

Some group surrounds you and starts with violent threats, some shoving, some are armed with sticks, bottles are thrown, maybe rocks, etc..... You fear for your life and maybe try to level it. Suddenly, someone charges you and grabs the rifle, their buddies jump in. The beating starts.

Maybe, you pull the trigger or maybe not.

OMG!!!

The news media starts the LEFTIST spin.....
Even if you were merely displaying your means of protection. And who cares if it's legal to open carry. They were just trying to dis-arm you for SAFETY. YOU posed an imminent threat to the "peaceful protest."
wwf2ag.jpg

What do you think an Oregon Judge would say? Wanna take chance, like in this case?

Antifa Wins, Self Defense Loses in Oregon Appeals Court - Victoria Taft

And....if you choose a jury trial.....you better hope for some gun owners to be amongst them. Remember it's Portlandia. But with the hate (even by gun owners) for "open carry".....maybe you should just cross your fingers and pray.

Or say ......

"F@^* all of this."
And just stay home.

Aloha, Mark
 
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People don't care as much as you think they do.
True, at least out here in eastern Warshington (yes, misspelling intentional). ;)
Saw people OC in Winco and Ranch & Home all the time pre-COVID, and no one paid them any mind. See even more OC now after the rioting started.
 
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I remember going to Costco and WalMart in Prescott AZ and a lot of people were open carrying. Very common in some areas. Doesn't bother me but I guess some people get triggered by the sight of a gun. Unless an LEO is carrying it. But now the public tells us that cops are bad. Whatever...
 
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I see people open carrying all the time. I open carry frequently when I am in the state I work in ( not allowed in SC at all ) . Ive open carried for years. Nothing stupid like an AR. I think may ONCE in 30 years has anyone even reacted to me carrying and tht was some Japanese tourists on a hiking trail and they wanted to have their picture taken with me.
 

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