Washington State HB 1588 Requiring universal background checks for firearms transfers

[Kable]

Sadly I was not able to attend we had a critical server go down that I had to rebuild but I did stream it on my phone while I worked. We had some good speakers opposing unfortunately they tweaked the bill and no onehada chance to read the updated one and I still don't see it online. Supposedly you don't have to run a check on CPL holders but you do have to fill out the atf form I think it's 4473 and supposedly it is only for sales and exempts gifting and lending supposedly it also does away with the department of licensing application however several people brought up the point that its against federal law for police to run background checks unless initiated by the dealer and many dealers wont do this because they can only charge 20 bucks also even though there is no application it still sets up s pistol registry as dealers have to fill out a triplicate form and turn one in and the state holds onto it. Please everyone write and call your reps again and tell them the updated version is still not good also good job to Gilbert from the second amendment foundation I sir shall be purchasing a membership like I've been concidering just haven't had much extra cash

 

[duane black]

TY for keeping up on this stuff. better than initial but I wont stop until is dead, completely.

 

[Excavator]

Does anybody know when they will vote on HB 1588? I watched the live feed on it, and there was only one guy on the comitte who was openly opposed to it. people made good arguments against this bill and were just dismissed and people for it were thanked and praised. im surprised by the amount of victims who were under the impression that criminals would obey the law. Its mind boggling how many are ignorant to the way the world works. these protectionists have a false sense of security from laws being passed that will have Zero affect on gun violence by criminals or evil people in general. but seriously does anybody know when they will take a vote? ive looked all over and I cant find a date. have they set a date? who actually votes on it?

 

[duane black]

Does anybody know when they will vote on HB 1588? I watched the live feed on it, and there was only one guy on the comitte who was openly opposed to it. people made good arguments against this bill and were just dismissed and people for it were thanked and praised. im surprised by the amount of victims who were under the impression that criminals would obey the law. Its mind boggling how many are ignorant to the way the world works. these protectionists have a false sense of security from laws being passed that will have Zero affect on gun violence by criminals or evil people in general. but seriously does anybody know when they will take a vote? ive looked all over and I cant find a date. have they set a date? who actually votes on it?

I do not have a answer to your initial question, but I agree about your statement about how the world works. I can't comprehend the way these people think. I just can't wrap my head around it. The only thing I can't think is they were beyond sheltered, since they left the womb.

 

[Heidland]

Does anybody know when they will vote on HB 1588? I watched the live feed on it, and there was only one guy on the comitte who was openly opposed to it. people made good arguments against this bill and were just dismissed and people for it were thanked and praised. im surprised by the amount of victims who were under the impression that criminals would obey the law. Its mind boggling how many are ignorant to the way the world works. these protectionists have a false sense of security from laws being passed that will have Zero affect on gun violence by criminals or evil people in general. but seriously does anybody know when they will take a vote? ive looked all over and I cant find a date. have they set a date? who actually votes on it?

The supplement was available, but unless you know exactly how to access it good luck. http://app.leg.wa.gov/m/cmd/Handler...umentcontent&documentId=XK-tEsMVSpA&att=false

(That link might not work since I'm logged in to my account on the system.)

The supplement summary reads

Summary of PSHB 1588
An unlicensed person is prohibited from selling a firearm to another unlicensed person unless:
A. The purchaser has undergone a background check and the background check indicates
the person is eligible to possess a firearm under state and federal law; or
B. The purchaser produces a valid Washington concealed pistol license (CPL).


here is the entire suppliment

Prepared by Edie Adams, Office of Program Research, February 12, 2013
PSHB 1588 (H-1417.1)
Requiring universal background checks for firearms transfers
By Rep. Pedersen

Summary of PSHB 1588
An unlicensed person is prohibited from selling a firearm to another unlicensed person unless:
A. The purchaser has undergone a background check and the background check indicates
the person is eligible to possess a firearm under state and federal law; or
B. The purchaser produces a valid Washington concealed pistol license (CPL).

A violation of this provision is a gross misdemeanor offense. "Unlicensed person" means a person
who is not licensed as a dealer under state law, or federally licensed as a collector.

The seller must request a background check of the purchaser from a dealer or from the chief of
police or sheriff of the jurisdiction where the seller or purchaser resides. The background check
consists of a check of the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). The
dealer or law enforcement agency may charge a fee of up to $20 for conducting the NICS check.

The purchaser must complete and sign the federal firearms transaction record (ATF Form 4473), which
must be provided to the dealer or the local law enforcement agency conducting the background check.
The dealer or law enforcement agency must indicate on the ATF Form 4473 whether the person is
eligible or ineligible to possess a firearm based on the results of the NICS check, and must record
the NICS transaction number on the form. If the NICS system returns a delay response that is not
resolved within three business days, the dealer or law enforcement agency must indicate that fact
on the ATF Form 4473, and the seller may then transfer the firearm to the purchaser.

The seller may retain a copy of the ATF Form 4473 as proof of compliance with the background check
requirement. If the purchaser produces a valid Washington CPL, the seller may retain a copy of the
CPL, or the license number and other information on the CPL, as proof of compliance with the law.
A dealer or local law enforcement agency conducting the background check may not retain a copy of
the ATF Form 4473.

The act does not apply to the sale of antique firearms, or curios or relics as defined in federal
law. The act also does not apply to, nor alter any state law requirements that apply to, the sale
of a firearm by a dealer.

1 AN ACT Relating to requiring universal background checks for
2 firearms transfers; amending RCW 9.41.080; creating a new section; and
3 prescribing penalties.


4 BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF WASHINGTON:


5 NEW SECTION. Sec. 1. The legislature finds that there is broad
6 consensus that certain people, such as felons, minors, and
7 involuntarily committed persons, should not be eligible to possess
8 firearms for public safety reasons. Background checks are an effective
9 and easy mechanism to ensure that firearms are not sold to those who
10 are prohibited from possessing them. However, because background check
11 requirements apply only to transfers by licensed firearms dealers, many
12 firearms are currently sold without a background check, allowing felons
13 and other ineligible persons to gain access to them. The legislature
14 intends by this act to strengthen our background check system by
15 broadening the requirement for a background check to apply to all
16 firearms sales in the state.


17 Sec. 2. RCW 9.41.080 and 1994 sp.s. c 7 s 409 are each amended to
18 read as follows:




Code Rev/AI:bbp 1 H-1417.1/13

1 (1) No person may deliver a firearm to any person whom he or she
2 has reasonable cause to believe is ineligible under ((RCW 9.41.040))
3 state or federal law to possess a firearm. Any person violating this
4 ((section)) subsection is guilty of a class C felony, punishable under
5 chapter 9A.20 RCW.
6 (2)(a) No unlicensed person may sell a firearm to another
7 unlicensed person unless: (i) The purchaser has undergone a background
8 check in accordance with the provisions of this subsection (2) and the
9 background check indicates that the purchaser is eligible to possess a
10 firearm under state and federal law; or (ii) the purchaser produces a
11 valid concealed pistol license issued under RCW 9.41.070.
12 (b)(i) A seller of a firearm to a purchaser who does not produce a
13 valid concealed pistol license issued under RCW 9.41.070 shall request
14 a background check of the purchaser from a dealer or from the chief of
15 police or the sheriff of the jurisdiction in which the seller or the
16 purchaser resides. The background check shall consist of a check of
17 the national instant criminal background check system.
18 (ii) The purchaser must complete and sign a firearms transaction
19 record (ATF form 4473), which must be provided to the dealer or the
20 chief of police or sheriff conducting the background check.
21 (iii) A dealer or a chief of police or sheriff who conducts a
22 background check for an unlicensed person under this subsection (2)
23 must indicate on the firearms transaction record (ATF form 4473)
24 whether the purchaser is eligible or ineligible to possess a firearm
25 under state and federal law based on the results of the background
26 check, and shall record the national instant criminal background check
27 system transaction number on the firearms transaction record (ATF form
28 4473).
29 (iv) If the national instant criminal background check system does
30 not return a proceed or deny response within three business days after
31 the background check is initiated, the dealer or chief of police or
32 sheriff shall indicate on the firearm transaction record (ATF form
33 4473) that no resolution was received from the system within three
34 business days and return the firearms transaction record (ATF form
35 4473) to the seller. The seller may then transfer the firearm to the
36 purchaser.
37 (v) The dealer or chief of police or sheriff conducting the
38 background check may not retain a copy of the firearms transaction




Code Rev/AI:bbp 2 H-1417.1/13
1 record (ATF form 4473), which shall be returned to the seller after the
2 completion of the background check. The seller may retain a copy of
3 the firearms transaction record (ATF form 4473) as proof of compliance
4 with the requirements of this section.
5 (vi) A dealer or a chief of police or sheriff may charge a fee for
6 conducting the background check under this subsection (2) in an amount
7 not to exceed twenty dollars.
8 (c) If the purchaser produces a valid concealed pistol license
9 issued under RCW 9.41.070, the seller may make a copy of the concealed
10 pistol license, or otherwise record the license number and other
11 information contained on the concealed pistol license, and retain this
12 information as proof of compliance with the requirements of this
13 section.
14 (d) An unlicensed person who sells a firearm to another unlicensed
15 person in violation of this subsection (2) is guilty of a gross
16 misdemeanor punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW.
17 (e) For the purposes of this subsection (2):
18 (i) "Firearms transaction record" means the bureau of alcohol,
19 tobacco, firearms, and explosives firearms transaction record (ATF form
20 4473);
21 (ii) "Unlicensed person" means any person who is not licensed as a
22 dealer under this chapter or federally licensed as a collector under 18
23 U.S.C. Sec. 923(b).
24 (f) This subsection (2) does not apply to the sale of an antique
25 firearm, or the sale of curios or relics as defined in 27 C.F.R. Sec.
26 478.11.
27 (g) This subsection (2) does not apply to, and is not intended to
28 alter the requirements of this chapter that apply to, the sale of a
29 firearm by a dealer licensed under this chapter.
--- END ---
Code Rev/AI:bbp 3 H-1417.1/13

 

[duane black]

^^^

I do like the fact they added the CPL language.

But I still oppose, all of it.

Thanks for posting that.

 

[223to45]

So you produce a CPL you don't need the background check???

And if you do a background check, you get to keep the 4473???

Am I understanding this right??

 

[Kable]

So you produce a CPL you don't need the background check???

And if you do a background check, you get to keep the 4473???

Am I understanding this right??

That's the way it looks to me. It also says police or FFL must delete the 4473 but WA state law says dealers must retain for 6 years if it's a pistol and I believe federal law requires then to hold onto others for 1 year incase the ATF wants to audit them I could be wrong on that part though. It also looks like they dropped the violation down to a misdameaner from a felony. Its better but I still don't like it.

 

[Ranb]

I went to Olympia this morning. When I was sitting in Hearing Room A, I saw the Bill 1588 summary. It did not resemble the original bill much. CPL holder’s were exempt and in place of the application that had not been created yet, form 4473 was to be used. It turns out that the bill was amended and not yet published, even the copies of the bill next to the sign in sheets in the hallway were out of date. The new bill is here; http://app.leg.wa.gov/m/cmd/Handler...umentcontent&documentId=XK-tEsMVSpA&att=false

I was the last person called up to speak. By this time the committee had already been informed about how their scheme was not going to work legally unless it was intended to simply ban private gun sales. All I had left to say was that I was disappointed that we were not permitted to view the amended bill prior to the hearing and that my local sheriff was not going to be performing any background checks for private sales.

The morning was not a total bust. I was able to speak to a WASPC representative about the SBR bill and give him my card. I still have to track him down and talk him into supporting the bill.

There was a moment of comedy too. After one man finished speaking of his support for the bill and how it would keep guns out of the hands of criminals, a committee member asked him if he thought criminals would comply with the law; he said yes. There was general giggling throughout the hearing room. I palmed my face at that one so I couldn't see if the committee was giggling too. I will have to check the archives on TVW later today.

So even if anyone wants gun control, it seems Olympia is not competent enough to provide it.

Ranb

 

[Dave Workman]

Ranb is right. that exchange is discussed in this column.

‘Universal background check' bill has problems, say rights activists

Problems abound for a bill now being considered by the Washington legislature that would require "universal background checks" on the transfer of any firearm, according to gun rights advocates who testified in Olympia Wednesday before the House Judiciary Committee.

<broken link removed>

 

[Nimh]

So you produce a CPL you don't need the background check???

So if this bill was somehow, at least in part, a response to that evil "gun-show-loophole", didn't this just become exactly what the WAC has been doing the whole time?

 

[kumabear17]

Everyone is aware that in this State for several years when you buy a handgun there is a State form (don't remember the number) besides the Federal 4473 that you must fill out. This form is kept by the State. Under HR 1588 I haven't heard or understood from what is said here how that form would be utilized. A good bet would be this form might be required for all firearm purchases and go to the State regardless of what happens with the Federal 4473 form. I would also be supicious of that $20 fee as being a minimum where other fees could be tacked on. I don't understand any controls being placed on it. Even now when you buy off Gun Broker some dealers charge up to $40 to process the NICS check. And of course they now charge sales tax on guns you ship into the state. Does anyone not believe this would quickly become and addition to the charge with some sort of blue book value used as a minimum so no one low balled the selling price. HR 1588 is a bad bill period. I just called my two reps in the 5th District who are opposed. I tried to call Mike Hope's, a sponsor, office, but only received and answering machine where I left a message for all the good it does.