Washington State Frequently Asked Questions About Gun Carry

[Muddslinger12]

Sorry to ressurect a dead thread but I figured its better than starting a new one.

I have a few ?s about carry on colleges in Washington state (namely Clark Community) It says in the Student code of conduct, "7.Possession or use of firearms, explosives, dangerous chemicals or other dangerous weapons which can be used to inflict bodily harm or to damage real or personal property is prohibited on the college campus, at any other facilities leased or operated by the college, or at any activity under the administration or sponsorship of the college. Exceptions to this policy are permitted when the weapon is used in conjunction with an approved college instructional program, is carried by duly constituted law enforcement officer, or is otherwise permitted by law. " <broken link removed>

I am just curious of 2 things,

1st) How would you interpret this? Namely the line that says, "or is otherwise permitted by law" I am a CPL holder does this mean I can carry on campus as permitted by law?

2nd) Is there any federal laws prohibiting carry on campus? if so please list link so I can read the laws.

ok 3 things will my CPL exempt me from the "No Guns on Campus signs"?

If all is ok I plan to get a more compact and concealable carry piece so I can easily conceal it without being noticed, just in the event I am discovered I wanna be sure I aint facing charges.

Thanks!

 

[gogoDawgs]

The language that Clark College uses would allow for carry in Washington, as CC with a CPL or open carry is legal and permitted by law.

It in not illegal to carry on a college campus. State law and federal law are silent on the issue, therefore it is not illegal.

Are you a student? If so you may be disciplined, i.e. kicked out of school. Although the specific wording of Clark's language specifically allows lawful carry as I stated above.

If you are not a student, they may ask you to leave, if you refuse to leave it is possible they could cite you for trespassing. Again, I would find this unusual because of Clark's wording.

In my opinion, I would carry CC at Clark with no worries.

 

[Muddslinger12]

Ok cool thats how I interpretted in. I am not a student yet I plan to be soon however. I think they might just kick me out for the day, and I could return unarmed and have a fair "trial" on disiclinary action. being that their rule clearly says, "unless otherwise permitted by law" and I carry in accordance with the law.

I was reading on the "students for college carry" site and it said its the individual campuses say on carry or no carry. I just wanted to be sure that I interpreted it accurately. Didnt wanna have to call just to ask about that either. I figure concealed means concealed. Not only that in their Code of Conduct it also states no student shall be searched (persons or belongings) so if they really wanna search me they will need an officer WITH a search warrant. I just wanted to be sure there isnt some fine print in Fed or State law that says I would become a felon if I was discovered. So when I go I will just CC and never tell a soul and hopefully will never need it, the whole reason I carry is so I dont need it. Better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it.

And although I doubt a community college would be a smart target, nothing about what those pyscopaths do is smart or even predictable so better safe then sorry.

 

[hermannr]

Ok cool thats how I interpretted in. I am not a student yet I plan to be soon however. I think they might just kick me out for the day, and I could return unarmed and have a fair "trial" on disiclinary action. being that their rule clearly says, "unless otherwise permitted by law" and I carry in accordance with the law.

I was reading on the "students for college carry" site and it said its the individual campuses say on carry or no carry. I just wanted to be sure that I interpreted it accurately. Didnt wanna have to call just to ask about that either. I figure concealed means concealed. Not only that in their Code of Conduct it also states no student shall be searched (persons or belongings) so if they really wanna search me they will need an officer WITH a search warrant. I just wanted to be sure there isnt some fine print in Fed or State law that says I would become a felon if I was discovered. So when I go I will just CC and never tell a soul and hopefully will never need it, the whole reason I carry is so I dont need it. Better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it.

And although I doubt a community college would be a smart target, nothing about what those pyscopaths do is smart or even predictable so better safe then sorry.

Oregon and Colorado took their colleges to court and the court said that they could not restrict carry, I personally believe WA colleges and universities could have the same thing done...however.

If I had not read the restrictions at CCCC...I was of the understanding that only one of the Community Colleges had not restricted carry, but the way this reads, legal carry is ok there at CCCC. Cool.

Anyway, the only thing they can do is administrative anyway...the Law (RCW 9.41.300) and the Washington state constitution Article 1 Section 24, are on your side...from what they have in that student code of conduct, it looks like legal carry is ok administratively too....Good luck.

Personally, I do not conceal, except for when the weather requires a coat, but I do not flaunt my carry either. very discrete, even if openly carried. IMHO, discrete would be good here too. . CC if that is what it takes to stay discrete

 

[deen_ad]

In my opinion, I would carry CC at Clark with no worries.

That's what I did when I went there some 20 years ago to get an AA in Computers and in the last few years when my grandson went there. Even in OR at one of the campuses I carried and that was also about 20 years ago too. Never worried about it and I still don't.

 

[wichaka]

I am just curious of 2 things,

1st) How would you interpret this? Namely the line that says, "or is otherwise permitted by law" I am a CPL holder does this mean I can carry on campus as permitted by law?

2nd) Is there any federal laws prohibiting carry on campus? if so please list link so I can read the laws.

1 - No, campus rules win out...unfortunately. Their property, their rules, unless federally funded, then the courts can impose their rules.


2 - See # 1 above.

 

[Muddslinger12]

Wichaka- So your saying NO I would not be able to carry and still be following there rules? Although there rule states, "Unless otherwise permitted by law." So as a CPL holder would I be considered to be "otherwise" permitted by law or No. Sorry for being redundant I just wanna be clear here.

Also if the answer is NO. What happens if I choose to carry anyways and break the schools rule, would that be punishable by law or just the school? Or does that part depend on if its a fed funded school or if its a privately funded school?

 

[Bushman]

RCW 9.41.050 is the primary law which affects gun carrying on a day to day basis. This law makes it unlawful for one to conceal a pistol without a concealed pistol license (hereinafter called CPL), and also makes it unlawful for one to carry a loaded pistol in any vehicle, whether it be openly carried or concealed carried unless a person has a valid CPL(see RCW 9.41.060 on Exceptions).

This is not accurate. No where in the RCW does it state open carrying a pistol in a vehicle without a permit is unlawful. The statute itself is specific to concealed carry under the doctrine of four corners.

 

[hermannr]

1 - No, campus rules win out...unfortunately. Their property, their rules, unless federally funded, then the courts can impose their rules.


2 - See # 1 above.

I have to disagree in part...Private college...absolutely, their rules.

State colleges and universities...their rules, within the limits of state law...at least until challanged in state court, this has nothing to do with the feds.. There is no LAW that states you cannot carry in an state college in WA (or OR or CO) There are even SOME state funded colleges that recognize this and provide for lawful carry in their school policy, and one CC has no provision in it's policy at all as concerns firearms, it just is not mentioned...I believe that is South Sound CC. Whatever the school policy is, it cannot concern a visitor as school policy only covers students and employees, state law covers the general population and RCW9.41.300 does not mention colleges and universities as prohibited places, or places that may be prohibited.

State Law (RCW 9.41.290 and RCW 9.41.300) does not give the college administrations, or BoR the right to restrict carry on the state funded campuses. The only difference between OR and WA is in OR the university system has been to court, and lost already. As was mentioned earlier, Clark County CC says "illegal firearms"...it does not ban firearms, just illegal firearms...I think this would pass muster. Skagit (where I went years and years ago) now has "by premission of the dean of students" I do not believe the law even allows the college administration that much. Anyway, whichever, it does not effect anyone that is legally carrying a legal weapon that has not connection to the college beyond "visitor". The legal authority does not exist.

 

[Muddslinger12]

Well I would be beyond visitor. I plan to be a student there and get a edumacation. So I would be bound by the "student code of conduct" which says there banned "unless otherwise permitted by law" I am a very personable person and really easy to get along with but some ppl are just stuck up and super anti gun the wrong person sees the handle or something and they feel compiled to goto security I just wanna be sure I wouldnt be kicked out and lose everything I work for. It seems like ppl are either super Pro gun or Super anti I just dont wanna get caught in the cross fire....

 

[wichaka]

This is not accurate. No where in the RCW does it state open carrying a pistol in a vehicle without a permit is unlawful. The statute itself is specific to concealed carry under the doctrine of four corners.

Paragraph 2 is specific about carrying a pistol in a vehicle;


RCW 9.41.050
Carrying firearms.


(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.



So the answer is No, you cannot carry a pistol on your person in a vehicle unless you have a permit.

 

[wichaka]

I have to disagree in part...Private college...absolutely, their rules.

State colleges and universities...their rules, within the limits of state law...at least until challanged in state court, this has nothing to do with the feds.. There is no LAW that states you cannot carry in an state college in WA (or OR or CO) There are even SOME state funded colleges that recognize this and provide for lawful carry in their school policy, and one CC has no provision in it's policy at all as concerns firearms, it just is not mentioned...I believe that is South Sound CC. Whatever the school policy is, it cannot concern a visitor as school policy only covers students and employees, state law covers the general population and RCW9.41.300 does not mention colleges and universities as prohibited places, or places that may be prohibited.

State Law (RCW 9.41.290 and RCW 9.41.300) does not give the college administrations, or BoR the right to restrict carry on the state funded campuses. The only difference between OR and WA is in OR the university system has been to court, and lost already. As was mentioned earlier, Clark County CC says "illegal firearms"...it does not ban firearms, just illegal firearms...I think this would pass muster. Skagit (where I went years and years ago) now has "by premission of the dean of students" I do not believe the law even allows the college administration that much. Anyway, whichever, it does not effect anyone that is legally carrying a legal weapon that has not connection to the college beyond "visitor". The legal authority does not exist.

May bad, I should have added 'state' funded colleges as well.

Now comes the kicker...since OC is allowed in Wa. State, I wonder how the college would view such an action?

Bottom line, ask the college before doing so would be the best thing to do.
Would like to hear if their views coincide with their policies.

 

[Muddslinger12]

Yeah I am thinkin the same thing. Only way to know for sure. I just dont wanna freak them out or talk to the wrong person and be misinformed (either way) alot of ppl (even leo) dont even KNOW the laws or policies. Alot of ppl think ak-47s are illegal and believe alot of false things (even me lol I grew up thinkin guns like that were illegal, one time I loved bein wrong!)

Thanks for the advice Wichaka!

 

[hermannr]

Here's a guideline for open carry in WA State;

Scenario:
Officer Smith sees two men walking down a sidewalk, the men appear to be talking as they cross the street. One of the men greets a lady as they pass. Officer Smith notices everyone is taking a second look at the men. Officer Smith sees both men are carrying what appear to be semi-auto pistols on their belts. It doesn’t appear the men are trying to hide the guns.


QUESTION #1:
Have the men committed a crime by carrying their guns where everyone can see them while in public?

The correct answer: No
Washington is an “open carry” state for firearms. This means there is a presumption that carrying a handgun in an exposed holster, for instance, is legal except where it is specifically prohibited. Open carry does not require a license.

QUESTION #2:
RCW 9.41.270 states “It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of others.”

Can the men be charged?

The correct answer: No
In this law, mere possession of an openly carried handgun is not prohibited. In order to support an enforcement action under this law, the officer must be able to articulate (describe in a convincing manner) malicious intent by the suspect or circumstances that reasonably cause alarm to the public. In either case, because open carry in Washington is presumably legal, the articulation must include something beyond mere, open possession.

Absolutely correct...and may I add, by over 40 years of personal experience here in WA....How it works.

 

[hermannr]

May bad, I should have added 'state' funded colleges as well.

Now comes the kicker...since OC is allowed in Wa. State, I wonder how the college would view such an action?

Bottom line, ask the college before doing so would be the best thing to do.
Would like to hear if their views coincide with their policies.

I cannot say for UW (other than the Arboritum, which was not a problem) but our youngest went to WSU...my OC was never a problem...but then I never had any contact with campus security either.

When I went to Skagit Community College at night, years and years ago, it was not a problem there either...but then the student rules have changed to where now you supposedly need to ask the Dean of Students permission (which I think is wrong, but no-one has taken them to court yet) but there is no absolute restriction as with UW.

Again, student rules, they can do nothing (legally) to someone that is nothing more than a visitor. I suppose they could ask you to leave, but how could you be trespassed on unrestricted public property that is open to the public?

I suppose a classroom might be considered "not open to the public" so if you entered, unbidden, were asked to leave, and did not..that might stick as trespass...but a legal firearm would not have to be the reason you were asked in that case.

 

[billstaf]

Thanks for the post. I am an Oregon resident with an Oregon CHL, but also possess a Washington CHL as I am up in the Vancouver area quite a bit. I've always been a bit vague regarding Washington CHL dos and don'ts.

Your post helped clear up the questions I have.

 

[hermannr]

Paragraph 2 is specific about carrying a pistol in a vehicle;


RCW 9.41.050
Carrying firearms.


(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.



So the answer is No, you cannot carry a pistol on your person in a vehicle unless you have a permit.

OOPs, not quite correct...The prohibition is on "LOADED" pistol..not just any pistol. and there are many exemptions to .050 in RCW 9.41.060...to us common man exemptions (4), (5), (6), (7), and (8), with (8) being the most commonally used.

How do I know this...for over 25 years I refused to get my nanny permit, but I still legally carried, openly, in a holster on my hip, in the car, and out. I just unloaded while in the car, unless I was going to, coming from, or participating in, an outdoor recreational activity (or was being covered by (6), or (7). I never did figure out (5), what clubs fit this requirement? There have to be some, or the exemption would not be there????

 

[hermannr]

.

12) Who am I required to show my CPL to, and when? The law is somewhat vague, but essentially IF you are required to have a CPL in your possession, you are obligated to produce it to qualified persons (such as law enforcement) if they demand it. Also since you have to have a CPL to carry loaded in/on a vehicle, regardless of OC or CC, I would argue a transit vehicle operator might also want to see a CPL before allowing you on the vehicle. There are no firm rules or laws on this matter that I am aware of though.

.

M1gunr...I have a beef with your statement 12. I do not think that is accurate. WA state law does not provide any specific time or place that you MUST show your CPL to ANYONE. Then there is the little matter of Prouse V Delaware US Supreme Court decision on random license checks. I do believe our user wichaka answers this best in post #6 of thish thread.

 

[Bushman]

Paragraph 2 is specific about carrying a pistol in a vehicle;


RCW 9.41.050
Carrying firearms.


(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.



So the answer is No, you cannot carry a pistol on your person in a vehicle unless you have a permit.

AGAIN, the op said this was illegal open OR concealed, which is COMPLETELY WRONG, read the rcw, all of it, not just a smsubsection...it is specific to CONCEALED CARRY under the doctrine of four corners. You are completely misinformed and misinterpreting a basic law. The RCW never mentioned open carry.

 

[Bushman]

Read this thread all the way through.

Open Carry in Vehicle - Page 2