Washington Red Flag laws

[rdb241]

OK , this will be kinda lengthy but hang in there because this needs to get out. A couple of weeks ago at the Centralia gun show. I talked to the first person that I personally know of that has wrongfully fell victim to the abuse of the red flag laws. This gentle man lives in rural Thurston County. Not exactly sure where. He lives on a 5 acre lot with a couple of neighbors. The neighbors live on fairly large lots as well. My friend can not visually see either house from his house. Appearantly, one of the neighbors is allowing and charge people to ilegally camp on his property. Not just a couple of people but several. That has created more traffic on his road and the type of people doing the camping are questionable. The main problem is the neighbor is dump solid human waste on the property with no septic system in place. Just a pit. My friend lives by himself with a couple of dogs. He is a bit on edge being there alone. To top that off, he is disabled and in a wheel chair. So he is at a real disadvantage if something were to happen. Well my friend got ahold of Thurston County to report these land use issues. So the county paid his neighbor a visit. Here is where it gets nasty. In retaliation, the neighbor went to the county court and got a restraining order against my friend and everything in the order was false. But you do not have to proove accusations when getting a restraining order. All it takes is just the accusation. Some of the accusations were my friend tried to run down his kids, shooting a shotgun off the back porch(which is totally legal where he lives even if that happened) and here is the kicker. The neighbor accused my wheel chair bound friend of coming to his house and pounding on the door. Major flaw saying that. The nieghbors house is not wheel chair accessable and to get to the front door you have to take a step up over 12 inches. How is a person in a wheel chair going to get up that step and pound on the door. So if anybody has a restraining order filled against them in Washington. Here is what happens. First thing they do is run the person it was filled on for any criminal back ground. Then they check if you have a CCW. If you have one then they know you have guns. The law reads if you have guns and a restraining orded. The county Sheriff come and gets your guns. Wheather the accusations are true or not. Standard proceedure. This neighbor painted such a bad picture that the Thurston County Sheriff showed up with back up. When my friend answered the door in his wheel chair the cop started laughing and told him why he had back up. I am not sure about any guns but I do know that the Sheriff asked for his CCW which he coughed up. The worst part about all this is now my friend so far has spent 3K on a lawyer to fight the restraining order. You can be prosecuted for filling a fals report to obtain a restraining order with jail time. But if somebody files one against you, it will cost money to prove them wrong. It's honestly scarey to think anybody could file one for any reason without proof. The key is the restraining order. Sombody can file complaints against you with various departments but when the restraining order is included it's game over. Just some food for thought when life deals you a turd of a hand and you try and make things right and people do this stuff.

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[GWS]

Your friend will beat this. Then he can sue the idiot for all of his legal fees and maybe punitive damages as well. Once he gets that, he should request the court to have the idiot neighbor put up a peace bond for some substantial amount of money to ensure he doesn't try that stunt, or anything else against your friend in the future.

Peace Bond

 

[DirectDrive]

I had a friend (recently passed away) who had a VERY similar thing happen to him in Lewis County.
He found a rental neighbor dismantling his fence.
My friend went out to "communicate" with the rental neighbor while open carrying.
The rental guy called the police and said my friend was brandishing.

Cops show up, arrest my friend and seize all of his guns.
The guns were finally returned after about one year.

 

[American123]

I had a friend (recently passed away) who had a VERY similar thing happen to him in Lewis County.
He found a rental neighbor dismantling his fence.
My friend went out to "communicate" with the rental neighbor while open carrying.
The rental guy called the police and said my friend was brandishing.

Cops show up, arrest my friend and seize all of his guns.
The guns were finally returned after about one year.

The law is not on your side unless you call the police and present yourself as the victim. If someone else calls the police before you, they are the victim…

 

[DirectDrive]

The law is not on your side unless you call the police and present yourself as the victim. If someone else calls the police before you, they are the victim…

Yep.
The Red Flag Law is a dangerous thing.

 

[Alexx1401]

Sadly ALL laws can and are abused. Now for your friend. Assuming it really is exactly as stated here, he will win. He also needs to go after the scum who filed. Being all accurate here its a slam dunk the person who filed for the RO lied. The person who filed signed paper saying he understood it was a felony to lie on the forms. So now its time for civil action. This too should be easy. Then if the scum does not want to pay does he own the property? If so next step in a lean on said property.
Is all this "fair"? No. Sadly it is the what we have to live with.
Now as for "advice"? Here is some for any to take at what it costs. One, if this happens they are not (yet) coming to the place to search for guns. They ask you to turn over the ones you have. Have some you can say you do not have, so after they leave you are not left with nothing.
Also for the "victim" here, if he needs money help going after this scum? Give send go I think the place is called? DO NOT use those scum at go fund me. If the victim puts his case out on the net, at places like this? I suspect he will get some help from the gun community to pay for Lawyers to go after the scum and make the scum VERY sorry he decided to do what he did. Again my advice is worth what is being paid for it.

 

[Koda]

i wish there was a way to track how often false flags happen...

 

[Alexx1401]

I had a friend (recently passed away) who had a VERY similar thing happen to him in Lewis County.
He found a rental neighbor dismantling his fence.
My friend went out to "communicate" with the rental neighbor while open carrying.
The rental guy called the police and said my friend was brandishing.

Cops show up, arrest my friend and seize all of his guns.
The guns were finally returned after about one year.

Again free advice? DO NOT show a gun when doing this. Is this ''fair"? No. Again we have to live in the society we have made. While back I was walking my dogs and ran into some dopers who climbed my fence. I walked them back to said fence to go back. One scum threatened to kick one dog which is less than #5's. I told him it would be the last mistake he ever made. Was I armed? Yes. Did scum doper see gun? No. My body language probably was enough to tell this doper who was many decades younger than me that he may be picking a losing fight with this gray haired old man with a cane, and he did not kick the dog. Along with caring a gun I also had a body cam. If Police had showed up because scum called and said I threatened him? I would be able to show the tape of what happened and go from there.

 

[L84Cabo]

Don't even get me started on red flag laws. They are clearly unconstitutional and a violation of due process.

And one of the main problems with our Constitution and laws...as John Adams pointed out...is that they are designed only for moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

There needs to be stiff and severe penalties to anyone who files false charges against someone. And if those charges result in the loss of rights and/or freedoms, my personal feeling is that the false accuser should be sentenced to a minimum of ten years in prison as well as having to pay financial restitution to the accused. Often times, however, nothing happens to the accuser. That needs to change.

 

[Koda]

There needs to be stiff and severe penalties to anyone who files false charges against someone.

Im guessing there isnt a red flag law out there that designates any penalty for false accusations....

 

[quneur]

They should treat such reports as a 'swatting' incident. File or phone in a false red flag the authorities will go after the false flagger.

 

[Yarome]

They ask you to turn over the ones you have. Have some you can say you do not have, so after they leave you are not left with nothing.

Just to be aware that if asked directly by LE, or being presented with a court order, making a false statement or any non compliance with an order can land charges on you.

Not that I am discouraging anyone from exercising free will in service of the "greater good", but it's prudent to be aware and weigh the risks.

 

[Alexx1401]

Just to be aware that if asked directly by LE, or being presented with a court order, making a false statement or any non compliance with an order can land charges on you.

Not that I am discouraging anyone from exercising free will in service of the "greater good", but it's prudent to be aware and weigh the risks.

As I said my "advice" is worth exactly what people are paying for it. Did not stay in a Holiday Inn, and do not claim legal expertise.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

In the only Red Flag that I know of locally, a 19 year old thug got fired from his job, went to his family home and took a Ruger SR22 pistol. His sister stopped him outside and asked "Where are you going with that gun?" He said to kill his boss. She tried to block him and he fired a round into the lawn. The neighbor who heard all of this had already called the cops. After the thug was booked in jail, the arresting officer Red Flaged him just in case the Background check system failed and did not list him.

 

[ma96782]

RE : Red Flags

WARNING

So Then......

I hope that none of you......run into/have to deal with a Vengence-seeking "Crazy Ex".

Aloha, Mark

 

[Yarome]

As I said my "advice" is worth exactly what people are paying for it. Did not stay in a Holiday Inn, and do not claim legal expertise.

I wasn't suggesting it was bad advice. Just posting for the benefit of the woketards that read our forum. "Yes, we're aware."

My friend..... he would argue that every person has a moral obligation to resist unconstitutional infringments, is not obligated to fully comply with illegal or fraudulent actions against them and can not be compelled to relinguish their right to defend themselves without due process.

Just sayin....

 

[Alexx1401]

I wasn't suggesting it was bad advice. Just posting for the benefit of the woketards that read our forum. "Yes, we're aware."

My friend..... he would argue that every person has a moral obligation to resist unconstitutional infringments, is not obligated to fully comply with illegal or fraudulent actions against them and can not be compelled to relinguish their right to defend themselves without due process.

Just sayin....

I hear you. For a LONG time I lived in AZ and we could not for the life of us get a CC law passed. We had open carry and that was always the excuse the law makers used to not give us CC. Open was a HUGE PITA in the city. I just took to CCing anyway. Many used to say I should not. I told them you have to do you, I am going to carry. I was FAR more worried about needing a gun and not having it than I was about being randomly stopped and searched. Same with Work. I have all my working life carried at work. Many jobs getting caught would have meant getting fired. I have lost track of the shooters who would condemn me doing this. I always said the same thing. This is how I do things, I am NOT telling others to follow my way of doing things. Any job I did not have to pass through a metal detector to go into I was going to carry. Since I never felt the need to show people at work, or drop the gun on the floor playing with it, I was never worried about the employer finding out. If I ever "needed" the gun? Well I would be alive to go find another job. Again though everyone has to do what works for them.