Washington gun rights advocates wonder: Where is the NRA?

[BoatRanch]

Did, decided you too are trolling and smackin

Trolling? For what?
Please elaborate?

You just don't like the fact that I have the right to critique the NRA.

 

[BoatRanch]

So, Taku, and Rick Benjamin, let me ask you this...
Is Alan Gottlieb also bashing (your words not mine) the NRA by his statement below?

""The NRA has really not been involved at all until very recently, and not in the area of spending significantly at all," said Alan Gottlieb, chairman of the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms and founder of the Second Amendment Foundation. "I have no idea why. We have a coalition made up of all the gun rights groups in Washington, and they are not participating."

 

[BoatRanch]

Nobody "bashed" the NRA in here. They have however, asked valid questions as to why they were so glaringly quiet here in Washington State over this I-594 mess.

 

[rick benjamin]

Whining, complaining, bellyaching, posturing...
Seeking attention wherever and whenever possible.
Gottlieb and Starrett and yourself complain for no good reason.
In doing so, you aid and abet the enemy.
SAF did the best it could, and lost.
Instead of considering where you went wrong, you whine.
After-Action Armchair Generals.

 

[BoatRanch]

Instead of considering where you went wrong...
.

And, where did "we" go wrong?
How should have "we" fought against 10 million dollars poured into the pro I-594 initiative?

Let's hear Mr. Benjamin?

 

[rick benjamin]

Please, my friends and such call me Rick.

Perhaps the question should be:
Why didn't Mr Gottlieb plan early, fund a war chest?
Maybe SAF too tiny to matter? Smoke and mirrors?

Where's the $?
The NRA doesn't have any funds except those provided by the members.

ILA does political activism, not the NRA.
The ILA only has donations from dedicated patriots to work with.
A finite bucket of cash with a bottom.
Not a cornucopia of infinity.
You wanted the war chest opened for WA alone.
ILA funds would have been exhausted quite early, and Bloomberg still would have won in blue WA.
Instead, ILA won enough seats to dominate the House and Senate.

WA, OR voted our future in the past.
Every rino, democrat and independent voted into office.
Every soft on crime, anti-gun, pro-tax, bleeding heart liberal politician.

Hurricane Katrina Liberal rot, cancer expressed as:
Where were THEY!? I need!
WE need, THEY don't.
Pimple Pus.

Oregon voters returned Kitzhaber and Merkley to office, legalized recreational marijuana.
I donated hundreds of $ to their competitors, down the toilet. I chose wrong?

What NRA does, just in my neighborhood:
Financial support to defend against tree-hugging anti-gun lawsuit
Grant to purchase 15 revolvers for womens self-defense classes.
Grant to help erect court mandated shotgun shot curtains.
Grant to fund junior shooter competitions.

What to do?
I think it's time to hunker down.

 

[Bazooka Joe]

Perhaps the question should be:
Why didn't Mr Gottlieb plan early, fund a war chest?
Maybe SAF too tiny to matter? Smoke and mirrors?

Well Gottlieb did run Protect Our Gun Rights which did solicit funds. But I think it was a mistake that they chose only to run a pro I-591 campaign, rather than an anti I-594 campaign. It was clear at least two months ago, and maybe more, that alot of gun owners were unhappy with the second part of I-591 -- the part about a national standard for background checks.

 

[BoatRanch]

$10 million dollars...

 

[usagi]

Well Gottlieb did run Protect Our Gun Rights which did solicit funds. But I think it was a mistake that they chose only to run a pro I-591 campaign, rather than an anti I-594 campaign. It was clear at least two months ago, and maybe more, that alot of gun owners were unhappy with the second part of I-591 -- the part about a national standard for background checks.

SAF is very good at litigation, it is obvious they are out of their element when it comes to political campaigns and legislation. they should hire political consultant and campaign managers asap. or just stick to litigation and coordinate with the NRA on legislation, which the NRA is good at.

 

[pchewn]

My opinion: Wasted $$ and effort on 591 initiative took away $$ and effort on fighting 594. Bad strategy.

 

[U201491]

And, where did "we" go wrong?
How should have "we" fought against 10 million dollars poured into the pro I-594 initiative?

Let's hear Mr. Benjamin?

You did not have any campaign that was effective to turn out and kick the voters off the couch
It is just that simple. And it is why the initiative passed.
Go and beach to the lazy clods that did not take their rights serious enough to actually be Americans.
The NRA is not your Diaper Valet.

 

[U201491]

SAF is very good at litigation, it is obvious they are out of their element when it comes to political campaigns and legislation. they should hire political consultant and campaign managers asap. or just stick to litigation and coordinate with the NRA on legislation, which the NRA is good at.

Gotleib and the rest have to be willing to let go of all the control if they want the NRA in there. When they continually complain about the NRA, why would they come in to help even if they had the unlimited funds, which they do not. They are pros at 2nd Amendment Court Battles. SAF is small potatoes in comparison.
The donations and praise and pleas needed too go to the NRA and ask them to come aboard. Did that happen, up there. Not a chance. Just demands and expectations and Just one hell of a lot of beaching about the NRA.
A great aid to the bloomer bunch.
Congrats. You have a scapegoat. I am sure they will favor you in the future.

 

[usagi]

these same bloomy initatives are coming to OR as well. hope you guys are ready.

 

[jim97701]

these same bloomy initatives are coming to OR as well. hope you guys are ready.

I've no doubt this crap is coming our way next and I too hope we are prepared enough to defeat it but I'm afraid it will be the same b.s. as in Wash. First legalize Marijuana then get the freeloading masses stoned, lazy and eating potato chips, then put it on the ballot and see how many of them will get off their asses and put in the effort to vote. Seem like a pattern?.

 

[usagi]

this is why you need to start organizing for the onslaught NOW. get the NRA to start passing pro-2a legislation NOW, and start planning strategies to defeat initiatives. start talking with the NRA, the OFF can't do it alone. they should coordinate efforts.

you won't be able to fight with dollars. you'll have to fight with actual members. you need to get gun owners off their butts. work the phone banks. knock on the doors. get gun owners to vote! a lot of gun owners voted FOR 594 because they had no idea what was in it.

the real difference is bloomberg is an astroturf campaign with paid members, whereas NRA, SAF, gun owners are a true membership movement.

 

[Sstrand]

Death by a thousand cuts . . .

Sheldon

 

[Doc In UPlace]

While I agree with most of what usgi has posted, whether the Bloomie group was paid to belong or NRA has real members may be a distinction without a difference, that is to say, the Bloomie group not only outspent the 2A side, but their message went to the general public, where it mattered.

The 2A effort, aside from the lawn signs and bumper stickers, largely was aimed at people already opposed to I-594 by sending mailers to gun owners/ WAC members and ads placed in the American Rifleman, "preaching to the choir" so to speak.

WE didn't need to be told to get out and vote against 594, the people on the fringe of awareness, those who watch some TV news and then "know" we need BG checks to stop "gun violence" were the ones they needed to reach, and the NRA effort completely missed them.

Those fringe-aware voters don't subscribe to the Rifleman nor are they on the WAC Gun News mailing list, nor do they read Glock Talk or NW Firearms forums. That's why raw dollars that were spent on reaching the voters outside of the gun community was effective, and the "inside baseball" preach-to-the-choir effort was ineffective.

For that reason I must disagree that NRA couldn't have made a difference or that NRA's source of funding matters, in regard to being 'sincere' money, vs.'astroturf' money. Money is money, and assets placed where they count is what gets it done. The Bloomies spoke to the masses and the 2A effort spoke to the congregation.

These are lessons I hope will not be lost in Oregon and elsewhere as the "disarm everyone" circus moves to your states and the battle continues there.

 

[BoatRanch]

Gotleib and the rest have to be willing to let go of all the control if they want the NRA in there. When they continually complain about the NRA, why would they come in to help even if they had the unlimited funds, which they do not.

Wow, that is sad then! Because We ALL get S Crewed in the end!

 

[BoatRanch]

these same bloomy initatives are coming to OR as well. hope you guys are ready.

And they will bring $10 Million Dollars + with them.

What then, Taku?
By your comments here at NWFA, I'd expect you will be leading the fight against the $10-millon plus adversary?

 

[usagi]

The 2A effort, aside from the lawn signs and bumper stickers, largely was aimed at people already opposed to I-594 by sending mailers to gun owners/ WAC members and ads placed in the American Rifleman, "preaching to the choir" so to speak.

it is much easier to persuade the people who are already potentially on your side. unfortunately a lot of gun owners didn't get or didn't understand the message.

lawn signs, bumper stickers don't really persuade anyone.

WE didn't need to be told to get out and vote against 594, the people on the fringe of awareness, those who watch some TV news and then "know" we need BG checks to stop "gun violence" were the ones they needed to reach, and the NRA effort completely missed them.

TV news and ads are EXPENSIVE. with limited funds you need to focus your money on return on investment. that's where phone banks are great value for money. also, volunteers going door to door.

Those fringe-aware voters don't subscribe to the Rifleman nor are they on the WAC Gun News mailing list, nor do they read Glock Talk or NW Firearms forums. That's why raw dollars that were spent on reaching the voters outside of the gun community was effective, and the "inside baseball" preach-to-the-choir effort was ineffective.

For that reason I must disagree that NRA couldn't have made a difference or that NRA's source of funding matters, in regard to being 'sincere' money, vs.'astroturf' money. Money is money, and assets placed where they count is what gets it done. The Bloomies spoke to the masses and the 2A effort spoke to the congregation.

These are lessons I hope will not be lost in Oregon and elsewhere as the "disarm everyone" circus moves to your states and the battle continues there.

the bloomies will just drown you out in the mass media. you need to focus your efforts where they can't crowd you out.

also, letters to the editor matters. but you need to be coherent. a lot of the letters that were posted didn't hit ANY of the important points, didn't raise ANY of the important issues.

whatever oregon does, you must have a coordinated playbook and send a unified message. if your message is all over the place, it's much less effective. much better to speak one message consistently.