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I totally see what you're saying. I think its sad things have degraded to this point. Whether its substances, mental health, sociopaths, etc., we've gotten to the point where people snap.

At the same time, I also think about what it was like to do the job in a starched, pressed uniform with shined insignia and boots. It was totally impractical. Professional, yes. Practical, no. And it was expensive and time consuming.
You miss the effect things like that have on humans (both the ones in and out of the uniform) basic military (and human) training methods have changed little since perfected by Napoleon. We (in the military) train people better, faster with more lasting results than any other method ever designed. The polish, uniform perfection and insignia are all part of the process. It also effects onlookers in a positive manner.
 
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These guys sign up to to go fight a war against a non-military country, with no act of war declared by Congress, literally just running "missions". They get the massive adrenaline hits, the "brotherhood" mentality then come back and pick up a badge. You combine PTSD combat vets who eagerly signed up knowing they would be killing non military combatants coming back to keep us safe.
Combine this with a 1994 law congress passed allowing the military to sell at substantial discount and give away everything after deset strom from helmets to APCs, it's the literal definition of the militarization of the police. From there cops to the gear, it's already done. Its only ramping up.
 
I don't want to see beat cops in tac gear. I don't want to see dead cops because they don't have the right gear either.

That bearcat of WCSO's is stored in Hillsboro. SWAT had to get called out. Running code 3, its still a 30 minute drive from the SO to the crime scene. Dude had plenty of time to stop doing stupid things. He had plenty of opportunity to give up. The second he pulled the trigger, he forfeited his rights to continue stealing oxygen from the rest of us.

Some cops have done some horrible crap, but on the flip side I have met far more that are salt of the earth and who would be standing with us if the government went full tilt tyranny too. I have met and worked with cops who have had to kill people in the line of duty. Hell my grandfather was one. None of them went looking for those fights, none went to work hoping to kill someone, and none walked away unchanged by it.

This was not like the swat guys in Mesa killing a falling down drunk or a homeless guy camping in the desert. This guy was asking to meet his maker. No sympathy for him.
 
I don't want to see beat cops in tac gear. I don't want to see dead cops because they don't have the right gear either.

That bearcat of WCSO's is stored in Hillsboro. SWAT had to get called out. Running code 3, its still a 30 minute drive from the SO to the crime scene. Dude had plenty of time to stop doing stupid things. He had plenty of opportunity to give up. The second he pulled the trigger, he forfeited his rights to continue stealing oxygen from the rest of us.

Some cops have done some horrible crap, but on the flip side I have met far more that are salt of the earth and who would be standing with us if the government went full tilt tyranny too. I have met and worked with cops who have had to kill people in the line of duty. Hell my grandfather was one. None of them went looking for those fights, none went to work hoping to kill someone, and none walked away unchanged by it.

This was not like the swat guys in Mesa killing a falling down drunk or a homeless guy camping in the desert. This guy was asking to meet his maker. No sympathy for him.

This!
 
Not a fan of camo BDUs for law enforcement..but I do like and understand the use of OD Green / Sage green , "Sheriff" Brown , Navy Blue BDU's , Grey... for law enforcement.
Its weird ( and wrong )...I know judging a person from the clothes they wear...and if the cut is the same...why would the color / pattern matter?...
For me its a dislike of seeing my military and law enforcement seemingly coming together as one entity...

That said...again I understand the use of BDU's...just like 'em better if they are not in current or 80's vintage military
( woodland camo ) colors...
Andy
 
What I'm wondering is why cops need armored vehicles . What exactly are the preparing for ?? Police state ??
We need armored vehicles because they help us go home to our families after responding every day to calls requiring us to stand between sociopaths and the public they endanger. It's the same reason we need bullet resistant body armor and weapons. People who second guess the split second decisions we have to make in order to protect the public who pay us and trust us to keep them safe, should have to stand in our shoes before passing judgement on us.
Scott
Semper Fi
 
From what I've read, the guy was doing donuts and driving erratically. When approached by police he opens fire and continues on. At the point he decided to open fire, all bets are off. The police are obligated to stop the threat so he can't shoot them or civilians. I find nothing sad about this nor do I think the police should have done anything differently. Let's not forget the truck he was driving was ALSO a threat.

Good job, WCSO.
Thank you.
Scott
Semper Fi
 
Whoa...
Lets be careful that this thread does not turn into a bash law enforcement thread.

I understand that there are examples and cases of over zealous actions and even outright criminal actions done by some in law enforcement.

At the same time...
I am sure that there are many more forthright and honorable members of law enforcement serving us each day , than those who are not.

Please be respectful of those who serve and work in this profession.
Andy
 
Well on January 7 in Arkansas there was a shooting and everyone was getting ready to go crazy you know another cop kills black kid bla bla bla so two days ago the police release the dash cam video mmmmmmm the good outstanding young man that was a great kid had a Glock pistol and tried to kill the cops video on YouTube Arkansas police shooting of 17 year old BUT NOTHING ON THE NEWS ABOUT IT MMMMM WONDER WHY
 
I have known the W.C.S.O. since before Sheriff Garrett, and I have known most if not all the Deputies, and I can tell you, those Folks are top notch, and set the bar for how a Sheriffs Dept. SHOULD be run! Sheriff Garrett is a real stand up guy, and he demands the best from the best! It's no small matter that they had to go this route and I for one am very glad that they had the tools and the training to do what they had to do! If it had been another Dept. I don't think they would have been able to do as good a job as W.C. did and does! My hats off those Deputies, Job well done!
 
Sheriff Garrett is the best this county has seen in decades. I was not super impressed by Spinden, and Gordon was somewhere between, better than Spinden, not quite as good as Garrett. I hope Pat Garrett is not planning on retiring any time soon, he does a great job riding herd on this county and walking the line with the ever increasingly leftist mentality here, while respecting our liberties unlike the jokers in Multnomah county. I can't say I agree with every one of his policies, but hes a hell of a top cop. Also unlike some of his predecessors and current fellow sheriffs, it seems like Garrett shows up to work in a uniform every day ready to get on the road if hes ever needed. Lot of guys in his position ditch the uniform for a suit & tie, further distancing themselves from their deputies.
 
We need armored vehicles because they help us go home to our families after responding every day to calls requiring us to stand between sociopaths and the public they endanger. It's the same reason we need bullet resistant body armor and weapons. People who second guess the split second decisions we have to make in order to protect the public who pay us and trust us to keep them safe, should have to stand in our shoes before passing judgement on us.
Scott
Semper Fi


So what would you as a seasoned officer, suggest as an acceptable stopping point on gear and weapons ?

The whole blank check concept, of anything it takes under the premise of safety and protecting the public isn't going to wash.

I'm sure if we all walked a mile in someone's else's shoes we would have a different perspective.
Same for me as you.
 
Sheriff Garrett is indeed the best!

1C55CA38-2902-4098-AB90-9524EFD8E086.jpeg
 
So what would you as a seasoned officer, suggest as an acceptable stopping point on gear and weapons ?

The whole blank check concept, of anything it takes under the premise of safety and protecting the public isn't going to wash.

I'm sure if we all walked a mile in someone's else's shoes we would have a different perspective.
Same for me as you.

What is considered appropriate today might not be tomorrow. Its ever-evolving. Remember the Hollywood Heights shootout? Those officers had handguns and some shotguns and were outmatched by men with armor and rifles. It became the hallmark case-study as to why a patrol officer needed better body armor and a rifle. At least they could stand a chance until SWAT could arrive.

As far as gear, I'm not sure what difference it makes. I agree we shouldnt be wearing ACUs on patrol simply because of the concept of martial law. Some special teams wear camo, especially in heavily forested areas. Keeps you from being an easy target.

As far as other types of gear and uniforms, I believe in function and comfort over looks. Dress uniforms exist for a reason and its not for the street. Im all for outer armor carriers because they result in fewer hip injuries. Its no more crap than used to be on the belt, just in a lot more accessible and ergonomic way.

I dont see LEOs ever needed suppressive fire weapons. No SAWs, 240Gs, M2s. We have to be far more surgical due to public safety issues. We don't fight squads or platoons of bad guys. Lets hope bad guys never get that organized.
 
So what would you as a seasoned officer, suggest as an acceptable stopping point on gear and weapons ?

The whole blank check concept, of anything it takes under the premise of safety and protecting the public isn't going to wash.

I'm sure if we all walked a mile in someone's else's shoes we would have a different perspective.
Same for me as you.

Well this armored car incident was used to protect the public! I asked a question and it wasn't answered, how exactly are the police supposed to stop some crazy guy shooting a gun at them and resisting arrest?

I don't think anyone can claim the police are militarized until they can answer that question.
 

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