WA STATE PATROL TRANSFER FORM

[letrain]

so there was a guy online selling some of his guns to fix his car. i was interested. said he would only sell to "CWP holders" and no one under 21 on handgun. so i said i'll buy a couple of his guns for a deal. he agrees. i call him to discuss time and place and he then informs me "just so you know i'll need a bill of sale, and i have a form from the WA STATE PATROL i'll need you to fill out to transfer the firearm to you, because its registered".....i asked why it was registered, and he said all new hand guns bought through ffl dealers are registered with state patrol, and he doesn't want the serial number tracked to him if i lose it, or it gets stolen from me. i know that these forms are not mandatory for private sales. but i read the laws and it says the state patrol will not keep any records even on hand guns. the only person that keeps a record is the FFL sales records for 7 years. (think its 7 maybe 3?) anyone know if this is true? he said he had a state patrol buddy that could run the serial number on the guns and they come up belonging to him. and that this state patrol form transfers that name to me. i said i wouldn't fill those out, i have a CWP, but the whole point in private sales is better prices, no tax, and NO FORMS. not complaning its his guns he can do what he wants, but just curious on the validity of his "the state patrol keeps a record of all hand gun purchases at FFL dealers.(i.e. cabelas, big 5, jonh doe gun shop).

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[Jerry]

No...there is no registration with WSP. None at all.

The registration/transfer form is from the Dept of Licensing. Go to their website and see for yourself.

The form is strictly voluntary for private sales, but is required for FFL transfers. I recently did a sale through an FFL and the State form was required along with the federal paperwork.

The DOL form is required by Chpt. 9.41 RCW.

 

[TCOV]

If he bought the handguns through an FFL in WA then they are registered with the state. I doubt that he is talking about state patrol paperwork but really dept of licensing registration, which does not go away. It is voluntary on your part and unless the deal is a fantastic price or a handgun you want really bad I would pass on it unless you don't care. Since you brought it to this forum I think you care. That condition should have been clearly stated in the selling post.

 

[Nwcid]

What goes to the WSP is the record of last FFL sale. Some call it registration, but I am not getting into that one here.

Real simple. The record shows the last transfer at an FFL, or if you fill out the voluntary paperwork. If you buy it private party and you don't do the form then there is no recored. If it was actually registered then any time a gun changed hands it would HAVE to be recorded AND you would have to carry a copy of your registration for proof.

As the others have said I would pass too. I have not checked into if but if I recall correctly the owner can send in the form saying he sold it. That gets it out of his name and leaves you alone..........

 

[Jerry]

Here's the form for voluntarily reporting private disposition of handguns: http://www.dol.wa.gov/forms/652004.pdf

There is also State application to transfer pistol or revolver, but I can't find a electronic copy. It may be available only to FFLs.

 

[clambo]

There are so many guns for sale on the forums......I don't even bother with anyone whose views or ideas on legalities or paperwork are wrong, misguided, different than mine, etc. It's a buyer's market. If I want to play with forms I'll go to an FFL. ( And occasionally I do )

 

[hermannr]

so there was a guy online selling some of his guns to fix his car. i was interested. said he would only sell to "CWP holders" and no one under 21 on handgun. so i said i'll buy a couple of his guns for a deal. he agrees. i call him to discuss time and place and he then informs me "just so you know i'll need a bill of sale, and i have a form from the WA STATE PATROL i'll need you to fill out to transfer the firearm to you, because its registered".....i asked why it was registered, and he said all new hand guns bought through ffl dealers are registered with state patrol, and he doesn't want the serial number tracked to him if i lose it, or it gets stolen from me. i know that these forms are not mandatory for private sales. but i read the laws and it says the state patrol will not keep any records even on hand guns. the only person that keeps a record is the FFL sales records for 7 years. (think its 7 maybe 3?) anyone know if this is true? he said he had a state patrol buddy that could run the serial number on the guns and they come up belonging to him. and that this state patrol form transfers that name to me. i said i wouldn't fill those out, i have a CWP, but the whole point in private sales is better prices, no tax, and NO FORMS. not complaning its his guns he can do what he wants, but just curious on the validity of his "the state patrol keeps a record of all hand gun purchases at FFL dealers.(i.e. cabelas, big 5, jonh doe gun shop).

This guy needs to learn the LAW. There is no WA "registration", even through an FFL. There is a "record of sale" so the government can make sure they get their tax money. Unfortunately, DOL has been allowed (it is MAY in the LAW) keep the records after the tax matters are handled.

Tell the guy, if he wants a "voluntary" "record of sale", he can pay the sales tax that will occur as soon as he sends the forms in. (BTW: unless there is a criminal investigation, the WSP has no general access to these records..they must specifically ask for them. They belong to DOL, who shares them with the Dept of Revenue.

PS: tell him if you wanted to pay sales tax you would go through an FFL, not a private party.

 

[hermannr]

If he bought the handguns through an FFL in WA then they are registered with the state. I doubt that he is talking about state patrol paperwork but really dept of licensing registration, which does not go away. It is voluntary on your part and unless the deal is a fantastic price or a handgun you want really bad I would pass on it unless you don't care. Since you brought it to this forum I think you care. That condition should have been clearly stated in the selling post.

They are NOT "registered" with the state! There is a "record of sale" (supposedly for TAX verification purposes) that DOL MAY keep (they are not required to keep the record of sale beyond the tax payment verification stage, but they do)

 

[TCOV]

Call it what you will. The state tracks handgun transfers made thru an ffl and voluntary reporting to the DOL and I forgot about the sales tax that they would want. Law enforcement in WA has access to these records.

 

[hermannr]

What goes to the WSP is the record of last FFL sale. Some call it registration, but I am not getting into that one here.

Real simple. The record shows the last transfer at an FFL, or if you fill out the voluntary paperwork. If you buy it private party and you don't do the form then there is no recored. If it was actually registered then any time a gun changed hands it would HAVE to be recorded AND you would have to carry a copy of your registration for proof.

As the others have said I would pass too. I have not checked into if but if I recall correctly the owner can send in the form saying he sold it. That gets it out of his name and leaves you alone..........

It does not go to the WSP...The "record of sale" goes to DOL, and is also used by the Dept of Revenue. The WSP has the PRIVILAGE of REQUESTING the records for a CRIMINAL investigation.

 

[hermannr]

Call it what you will. The state tracks handgun transfers made thru an ffl and voluntary reporting to the DOL and I forgot about the sales tax that they would want. Law enforcement in WA has access to these records.

LE has access "for reason". It is not general access, no matter what they tell you. LE needs to be ready to justify the request if the question goes to court. (as in a 1983 law suit)

 

[letrain]

Yeah. There was no convincing him. I don't mind the cwp requirement some have. Mostly because I have one. I never ask for one when selling. But I do agree that if I wanted to do paper work I'd go to a dealer and pay tax. He said that it stopped other people from buying guns from him before. Which is odd he wouldn't change his mind. He has has several guns up for sale for several months ( I can see why several months) and he needs money to fix his car. He was going to have to drive his wife's car to meet me. I'll never voluntarily register my guns. And if they ever push it. They are"sold". And I don't own then anymore.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[hermannr]

Yeah. There was no convincing him. I don't mind the cwp requirement some have. Mostly because I have one. I never ask for one when selling. But I do agree that if I wanted to do paper work I'd go to a dealer and pay tax. He said that it stopped other people from buying guns from him before. Which is odd he wouldn't change his mind. He has has several guns up for sale for several months ( I can see why several months) and he needs money to fix his car. He was going to have to drive his wife's car to meet me. I'll never voluntarily register my guns. And if they ever push it. They are"sold". And I don't own then anymore.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

I have a BIG problem with his requiring a CPL to deal with him. To require a CPL assumes you are a prohibited person, unless you can prove otherwise (your CPL).

In the US a person is "Presumed innocent, unless proven guilty in a court of law". Not "guilty until proven innocent"

 

[optiontrigger]

It does not go to the WSP...The "record of sale" goes to DOL, and is also used by the Dept of Revenue. The WSP has the PRIVILAGE of REQUESTING the records for a CRIMINAL investigation.

I don't believe this is true about the criminal investigation part. A trooper pulled my records up during a routine stop for speeding. Ask me how I know. I still have the printout.

 

[solv3nt]

I have a BIG problem with his requiring a CPL to deal with him. To require a CPL assumes you are a prohibited person, unless you can prove otherwise (your CPL).

In the US a person is "Presumed innocent, unless proven guilty in a court of law". Not "guilty until proven innocent"

This is the US Court System, not private party. When I'm driving, I assume that everybody else on the road is incompetent and possibly texting. Usually, they don't let me down.

 

[hermannr]

This is the US Court System, not private party. When I'm driving, I assume that everybody else on the road is incompetent and possibly texting. Usually, they don't let me down.

Defensive driving does not have anything to do with "innocent until proven guilt."

 

[solv3nt]

Defensive driving does not have anything to do with "innocent until proven guilt."

It does, in the eyes of the court, and the law, you are innocent until proven guilty. In my book, you're looked at with skepticism until proven otherwise.

 

[hermannr]

It does, in the eyes of the court, and the law, you are innocent until proven guilty. In my book, you're looked at with skepticism until proven otherwise.

Defensive driving is NOT about doing things that are illegal. Defensive driving is for things like the other driver just not seeing you. Or seeing something you do not (yet, or ever) and reacting unexpectedly. It also has to do with drivers that have slow reaction times, or have not learned what a proper reaction to a developing situation is.

I taught DD back in the 60's and I sill had an accident. One accident in 50+ years of driving isn't bad, but that accident also shows you cannot prevent them all. (I was in the left lane passing a small pickup in the right lane that was slowing. I did not know what the guy was up too and was watching him closely. Found out quickly as he litterly drove that pickup into the front right tire of my car. He was turning left into a driveway (about 100 yards down the road) from the right lane of a 4 lane road. No he wasn't just changing lanes, as after he collided with my car he kept on turning, heading for that driveway pushing me along with him. He said he didn't see me... that is what defensive driving is about...

 

[solv3nt]

Defensive driving is NOT about doing things that are illegal. Defensive driving is for things like the other driver just not seeing you. Or seeing something you do not (yet, or ever) and reacting unexpectedly. It also has to do with drivers that have slow reaction times, or have not learned what a proper reaction to a developing situation is.

I taught DD back in the 60's and I sill had an accident. One accident in 50+ years of driving isn't bad, but that accident also shows you cannot prevent them all. (I was in the left lane passing a small pickup in the right lane that was slowing. I did not know what the guy was up too and was watching him closely. Found out quickly as he litterly drove that pickup into the front right tire of my car. He was turning left into a driveway (about 100 yards down the road) from the right lane of a 4 lane road. No he wasn't just changing lanes, as after he collided with my car he kept on turning, heading for that driveway pushing me along with him. He said he didn't see me... that is what defensive driving is about...

You're missing my point... I used DD as an example as how why I also require to see a good guy card when I sell a firearm. The legal system, as laid out by our founding fathers, dictates that the government look at the US population as innocent until proven guilty. However, me as a private individual as allowed under the law, view people with skepticism until proven otherwise. FYI, when you buy a gun from an FFL, you are viewed as guilty until proven innocent with the requirement of a background check.

 

[hermannr]

You're missing my point... I used DD as an example as how why I also require to see a good guy card when I sell a firearm. The legal system, as laid out by our founding fathers, dictates that the government look at the US population as innocent until proven guilty. However, me as a private individual as allowed under the law, view people with skepticism until proven otherwise. FYI, when you buy a gun from an FFL, you are viewed as guilty until proven innocent with the requirement of a background check.

In general, it has been my observation that trustworthy people tend to view the people they encounter as also being trustworthy. Those that may not be that trustworthy, treat everyone with suspicion.

I ran my own business for 15 years before I retired. I trusted people to be honest in their business dealings. (I did not run credit checks on any of those that desired credit) In the thousands that I did business with, only one small business took advantage of that trust... I wrote the loss off, and did not do business with them any more. And, no, I did not send the bill to a collection agency either...I just wrote it off. It's that simple. Why should I penalize the thousands that were trustworthy, for the one that was not?