Washington WA Magazine Ban Bill PREFILED - Link to comment below

[slimmer13]

It may be canned, it is better than outright “f u” . The 15 round limit it at least an olive branch ... as it is .

It's not. It's politicking. Make no mistake, if they thought they could get it capped at 3, they would. They don't care about our objections. We've been through this for the last several years. If it looks like support for a 10rd cap is lacking, they will amend it to 15 to try and get it on the books. If they think they can get it through at 10, they will.

 

[chipotle]

Got a response from Tim Sheldon(D):

Thank you for your message and for sharing your concerns regarding SB 5078, which would ban the sale and possession of high-capacity magazines. The continued possession of legally-owned magazines would be permitted. I am a co-sponsor of the Senate bill. We are holding a hearing on it later this morning in the Senate Law & Justice Committee, which I chair.



Although both the second amendment to the U.S. constitution and Article I, Section 24 of the state constitution protect the individual right to bear arms, those rights are not unlimited. As with other cherished constitutional rights, such as speech or assembly, the right to bear arms can be subject to reasonable restrictions on time, place and manner of exercise. The same principle that allows us to ban the possession of machine guns, 3D printed weapons, and bump stocks (all of which are banned under existing Washington law) would permit the legislature to ban the possession of high capacity magazines. There is strong evidence that nearly every mass shooting event has involved the use of high-capacity magazines. I have not heard a compelling claim that the magazines are necessary for any legitimate civilian purpose.



Would it make a difference to you if the bill were changed to apply only to magazines with a capacity of more than 15 rounds?



Best wishes, Jamie





Senator Jamie Pedersen

43rd Legislative District

jamie.pedersen@leg.wa.gov

pronouns: he, him, his



Olympia Office

JAC 235

P.O. Box 40443

Olympia, WA 98504-0443

(360) 786-7628

Note that the response doesnt touch on the elephant in the room: people's legally-acquired personal property becoming contraband.

 

[LibertyNews]

Note that the response doesnt touch on the elephant in the room: people's legally-acquired personal property becoming contraband.

Note that you mixed 2 replies there. Sheldon is opposed to it.

 

[chipotle]

Note that you mixed 2 replies there. Sheldon is opposed to it.

posting on mobile is truly a miserable affair-but yes I did

 

[zcap]

Note that the response doesnt touch on the elephant in the room: people's legally-acquired personal property becoming contraband.

The response also confuses correlation with causation. As most modern firearms are "high capacity", then it is expected that crimes involving firearms will also involve "high capacity" firearms at a rate proportional to their ownership.

The response also ignores the everyday lawful utility of the magazines for self defense , and focuses on extreme outliers (over-generalization).

The response also is self conflicting "I support the second amendment" but then claims that law abiding citizens should have arbitrary restrictions on firearms technology invented over 100 years ago.

Additionally, and perhaps most dangerously, it demonstrates a complete obliviousness to the degradation of law that occurs when a small governing minority decide to criminalize a large percentage of the populace.

 

[nwslopoke]

Wait a tick... why do Hill and Joe get first name treatment but Don doesn't?

I hate to say it, but even 10 round mags will enable mass shootings. The only fix for this is banning all semi-automatic weapons. And anything with a mag or a clip. Bam. No mass shootings.

I get stuck on mass murder. The media gets stuck on shootings. Guns are unfortunately one of many ways to stop people from living. Trucks, poison (Remember? Probably not), knives, explosions are some other popular ways deranged people kill innocents in large numbers.

But the media arm of government quickly move on to another story or create a non story to follow.

 

[Chris Terrance]

Thank you for your message and for sharing your concerns regarding SB 5078, which would ban the sale and possession of high-capacity magazines. The continued possession of legally-owned magazines would be permitted. I am a co-sponsor of the Senate bill. We are holding a hearing on it later this morning in the Senate Law & Justice Committee, which I chair.



Although both the second amendment to the U.S. constitution and Article I, Section 24 of the state constitution protect the individual right to bear arms, those rights are not unlimited. As with other cherished constitutional rights, such as speech or assembly, the right to bear arms can be subject to reasonable restrictions on time, place and manner of exercise. The same principle that allows us to ban the possession of machine guns, 3D printed weapons, and bump stocks (all of which are banned under existing Washington law) would permit the legislature to ban the possession of high capacity magazines. There is strong evidence that nearly every mass shooting event has involved the use of high-capacity magazines. I have not heard a compelling claim that the magazines are necessary for any legitimate civilian purpose.



Would it make a difference to you if the bill were changed to apply only to magazines with a capacity of more than 15 rounds?



Best wishes, Jamie





Senator Jamie Pedersen

43rd Legislative District

jamie.pedersen@leg.wa.gov

pronouns: he, him, his



Olympia Office

JAC 235

P.O. Box 40443

Olympia, WA 98504-0443

(360) 786-7628

The restrictions he mentions are probably also unconstitutional. The second is the only amendment with “shall not be infringed “ attached to it.
The California 9th Circuit court has found magazine bans unconstitutional, the case will eventually head to the Supreme Court. His “ reasonable restriction “ has already been determined to be unconstitutional.
When you take out gang related and domestic violence there have been 163 mass shootings between 1967 and June 2019. This is about three a year. All told there were 1141 deaths (22 a year average). About 400 people die each year falling from ladders and scaffolding. Maybe he should outlaw ladders as they are not constitutionally protected.
Let your representative know that “the science is real” and that he should work on solving real problems not infringing on our rights.
I would love to hear what Pedersen thinks are “ reasonable restrictions” on other protected rights and who gets to decide.
No compromise on number of rounds etc. We can have no compromise on our rights!

 

[1371JarHead]

How many high cap mags or `clips`..did Charles Whitman have ? uummmm he used a Rem 700 in 6mm rem, you dont needs mags to kill a lot of people, the Brits got off 14/16 rounds a min with the 303 lee enfield.

 

[1371JarHead]

It's not. It's politicking. Make no mistake, if they thought they could get it capped at 3, they would. They don't care about our objections. We've been through this for the last several years. If it looks like support for a 10rd cap is lacking, they will amend it to 15 to try and get it on the books. If they think they can get it through at 10, they will.

Yup, and after that 5 round will be to much, then everyone with have to buy Ruger NO 1 single shots, after that OMG some guy killed 5 people with a single shot, you can only own muzzle loaders....some of you laughed when I said 9mm will hit 1000$$per 1000 rounds..and low and behold some mook in here is asking just for that, we are in bad times.

 

[WAW44]

So, who actually spoke up at the hearing today? Heh? It was "OMG OMG OMG THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!" vs " Criminals don't care, studies shows this is ineffective, this is unconstitutional..."

 

[jsherman206]

Just to keep those up-to-date (and hopefully not a duplicate post), below is a link to the video today from the Washington State Legislature website for the Jan 25 - Public hearing in the Senate Committee on Law & Justice at 9:30 AM.

Available Videos:
Jan 25, 2021 Senate Law & Justice at 9:30 AM

(makes me a little sick to my stomach listening to those in favor or this bill...)

Hope this helps keeps everyone with current status.

 

[WAW44]

How do I get a comment to the members of the committee, and not just to my specific reps that are full on board with this crap?

 

[GWS]

FPC has a well written email blast on SB-5078, just enter your address and hit submit to mail your reps. No writing, no finding you reps, no excuses.

OPPOSE SB-5078

Done and Thanks!
That is a quick and easy way for you to let these reps know where you stand on the issue.

 

[GWS]

How do I get a comment to the members of the committee, and not just to my specific reps that are full on board with this crap?

Click the link in this message below. It goes to the reps on the committee.

FPC has a well written email blast on SB-5078, just enter your address and hit submit to mail your reps. No writing, no finding you reps, no excuses.

OPPOSE SB-5078

 

[WAW44]

Click the link in this message below. It goes to the reps on the committee.

OK, but I don't agree with the points being made in the mail blast, hence asking for alternative ways.

 

[zcap]

OK, but I don't agree with the points being made in the mail blast, hence asking for alternative ways.

The link below has all the email addresses of the Washington state legislature. Feel free to email all of them. However, most emails and calls are screened by assistants who keep rough tabs on for / against counts on a given piece of legislation, so the best use of time is bury them in a high number of consice opposition emails and calls rather than spending a lot of time composing the most articulate arguments.

Washington State Legislature

app.leg.wa.gov

 

[GWS]

OK, but I don't agree with the points being made in the mail blast, hence asking for alternative ways.

Just out of curiosity
What don't you agree with in that e-blast?

ETA You can put your own text in that letter, I just tried that and it flies

 

[zcap]

Here are the Democrats emails. You can copy / paste this block into your email client's TO or BCC field and send away:

jessica.bateman@leg.wa.gov; April.Berg@leg.wa.gov; steve.bergquist@leg.wa.gov; Liz.Berry@leg.wa.gov; andy.billig@leg.wa.gov; Dan.Bronoske@leg.wa.gov; lisa.callan@leg.wa.gov; reuven.carlyle@leg.wa.gov; mike.chapman@leg.wa.gov; frank.chopp@leg.wa.gov; annette.cleveland@leg.wa.gov; eileen.cody@leg.wa.gov; steve.conway@leg.wa.gov; j.darneille@leg.wa.gov; mona.das@leg.wa.gov; lauren.davis@leg.wa.gov; manka.dhingra@leg.wa.gov; laurie.dolan@leg.wa.gov; davina.duerr@leg.wa.gov; debra.entenman@leg.wa.gov; jake.fey@leg.wa.gov; joe.fitzgibbon@leg.wa.gov; noel.frame@leg.wa.gov; david.frockt@leg.wa.gov; roger.goodman@leg.wa.gov; mia.gregerson@leg.wa.gov; David.Hackney@leg.wa.gov; drew.hansen@leg.wa.gov; Kirsten.Harris-Talley@leg.wa.gov; bob.hasegawa@leg.wa.gov; steve.hobbs@leg.wa.gov; sam.hunt@leg.wa.gov; laurie.jinkins@leg.wa.gov; jesse.johnson@leg.wa.gov; karen.keiser@leg.wa.gov; steve.kirby@leg.wa.gov; shelley.kloba@leg.wa.gov; patty.kuderer@leg.wa.gov; mari.leavitt@leg.wa.gov; debra.lekanoff@leg.wa.gov; marko.liias@leg.wa.gov; liz.lovelett@leg.wa.gov; john.lovick@leg.wa.gov; nicole.macri@leg.wa.gov; melanie.morgan@leg.wa.gov; mark.mullet@leg.wa.gov; joe.nguyen@leg.wa.gov; T'wina.Nobles@leg.wa.gov; timm.ormsby@leg.wa.gov; lillian.ortiz-self@leg.wa.gov; tina.orwall@leg.wa.gov; dave.paul@leg.wa.gov; jamie.pedersen@leg.wa.gov; strom.peterson@leg.wa.gov; gerry.pollet@leg.wa.gov; alex.ramel@leg.wa.gov; bill.ramos@leg.wa.gov; emily.randall@leg.wa.gov; marcus.riccelli@leg.wa.gov; june.robinson@leg.wa.gov; christine.rolfes@leg.wa.gov; Alicia.Rule@leg.wa.gov; cindy.ryu@leg.wa.gov; rebecca.saldana@leg.wa.gov; jesse.salomon@leg.wa.gov; sharontomiko.santos@leg.wa.gov; mike.sells@leg.wa.gov; tana.senn@leg.wa.gov; timothy.sheldon@leg.wa.gov; sharon.shewmake@leg.wa.gov; Tarra.Simmons@leg.wa.gov; vandana.slatter@leg.wa.gov; larry.springer@leg.wa.gov; derek.stanford@leg.wa.gov; monica.stonier@leg.wa.gov; pat.sullivan@leg.wa.gov; Jamila.Taylor@leg.wa.gov; my-linh.thai@leg.wa.gov; steve.tharinger@leg.wa.gov; javier.valdez@leg.wa.gov; kevin.vandewege@leg.wa.gov; amy.walen@leg.wa.gov; lisa.wellman@leg.wa.gov; emily.wicks@leg.wa.gov; claire.wilson@leg.wa.gov; sharon.wylie@leg.wa.gov

And here are the Republican emails if you want to send a different email to them:

Peter.Abbarno@leg.wa.gov; andrew.barkis@leg.wa.gov; matt.boehnke@leg.wa.gov; john.braun@leg.wa.gov; sharon.brown@leg.wa.gov; michelle.caldier@leg.wa.gov; kelly.chambers@leg.wa.gov; bruce.chandler@leg.wa.gov; Rob.Chase@leg.wa.gov; chris.corry@leg.wa.gov; tom.dent@leg.wa.gov; Perry.Dozier@leg.wa.gov; jeremie.dufault@leg.wa.gov; mary.dye@leg.wa.gov; doug.ericksen@leg.wa.gov; carolyn.eslick@leg.wa.gov; phil.fortunato@leg.wa.gov; Greg.Gilday@leg.wa.gov; chris.gildon@leg.wa.gov; keith.goehner@leg.wa.gov; jenny.graham@leg.wa.gov; dan.griffey@leg.wa.gov; paul.harris@leg.wa.gov; brad.hawkins@leg.wa.gov; larry.hoff@leg.wa.gov; jeff.holy@leg.wa.gov; jim.honeyford@leg.wa.gov; Cyndy.Jacobsen@leg.wa.gov; curtis.king@leg.wa.gov; Mark.Klicker@leg.wa.gov; brad.klippert@leg.wa.gov; vicki.kraft@leg.wa.gov; joel.kretz@leg.wa.gov; drew.macewen@leg.wa.gov; jacquelin.maycumber@leg.wa.gov; bob.mccaslin@leg.wa.gov; jim.mccune@leg.wa.gov; Joel.McEntire@leg.wa.gov; gina.mosbrucker@leg.wa.gov; ron.muzzall@leg.wa.gov; ed.orcutt@leg.wa.gov; mike.padden@leg.wa.gov; ann.rivers@leg.wa.gov; Eric.Robertson@leg.wa.gov; skyler.rude@leg.wa.gov; joe.schmick@leg.wa.gov; mark.schoesler@leg.wa.gov; shelly.short@leg.wa.gov; mike.steele@leg.wa.gov; drew.stokesbary@leg.wa.gov; robert.sutherland@leg.wa.gov; brandon.vick@leg.wa.gov; mike.volz@leg.wa.gov; keith.wagoner@leg.wa.gov; jim.walsh@leg.wa.gov; judith.warnick@leg.wa.gov; jt.wilcox@leg.wa.gov; Jeff.Wilson@leg.wa.gov; lynda.wilson@leg.wa.gov; alex.ybarra@leg.wa.gov; jesse.young@leg.wa.gov

 

[WAW44]

Just out of curiosity
What don't you agree with in that e-blast?

ETA You can put your own text in that letter, I just tried that and it flies

So I'm a data and numbers guy. I think the economic hit argument is weak. I think this bill, if passed, will have negligible impact on firearm sales and the supporters of this bill will actually applaud that, as it means less guns in hands of citizens, their ultimate goal. I'm surprised the email does not mention the WSP study, you know vetted science not emotions, that recommended against magazine ban laws as they are ineffective at reduction of crime. Same with Randd Co. Gun Policy studies. I'm surprised that NJ and NY laws aren't show as examples, where no documented crime reduction occurred, and compliance , as measured by magazines turned in to authorities, is close to 0. Finally, documented crime rates for Police officers, active or retired, are higher than concealed carry permit holders, the group of citizens affected largely by this bill. Again, this is the opposite of effectiveness in crime reduction.

The only thing I see this law will accomplish is to create resentment in a large group of the voting public, vast disobedience activism, municipalities declaring themselves 2nd amendment sanctuaries, and local law enforcement actively refusing to enforce this law. This will erode the positive effect of laws like i-594 and i-1369, because once you start opposing one gun control bill, you might as well do it for all. I would ask the legislature to vote on facts and science, not on emotion and the optics of doing something even if that something will not achieve anything useful. I would ask them to work together with the firearm owners community instead of further driving it away in this time of national crisis caused by the COVID pandemic.

Ok, so above is pretty much what I wrote to my reps, but since they are all in "group hug and let's share the same needle and suck on taxpayer's tit when we can" territory, I don't expect them to read it anyway.

 

[1371JarHead]

Here are the Democrats emails. You can copy / paste this block into your email client's TO or BCC field and send away:

jessica.bateman@leg.wa.gov; April.Berg@leg.wa.gov; steve.bergquist@leg.wa.gov; Liz.Berry@leg.wa.gov; andy.billig@leg.wa.gov; Dan.Bronoske@leg.wa.gov; lisa.callan@leg.wa.gov; reuven.carlyle@leg.wa.gov; mike.chapman@leg.wa.gov; frank.chopp@leg.wa.gov; annette.cleveland@leg.wa.gov; eileen.cody@leg.wa.gov; steve.conway@leg.wa.gov; j.darneille@leg.wa.gov; mona.das@leg.wa.gov; lauren.davis@leg.wa.gov; manka.dhingra@leg.wa.gov; laurie.dolan@leg.wa.gov; davina.duerr@leg.wa.gov; debra.entenman@leg.wa.gov; jake.fey@leg.wa.gov; joe.fitzgibbon@leg.wa.gov; noel.frame@leg.wa.gov; david.frockt@leg.wa.gov; roger.goodman@leg.wa.gov; mia.gregerson@leg.wa.gov; David.Hackney@leg.wa.gov; drew.hansen@leg.wa.gov; Kirsten.Harris-Talley@leg.wa.gov; bob.hasegawa@leg.wa.gov; steve.hobbs@leg.wa.gov; sam.hunt@leg.wa.gov; laurie.jinkins@leg.wa.gov; jesse.johnson@leg.wa.gov; karen.keiser@leg.wa.gov; steve.kirby@leg.wa.gov; shelley.kloba@leg.wa.gov; patty.kuderer@leg.wa.gov; mari.leavitt@leg.wa.gov; debra.lekanoff@leg.wa.gov; marko.liias@leg.wa.gov; liz.lovelett@leg.wa.gov; john.lovick@leg.wa.gov; nicole.macri@leg.wa.gov; melanie.morgan@leg.wa.gov; mark.mullet@leg.wa.gov; joe.nguyen@leg.wa.gov; T'wina.Nobles@leg.wa.gov; timm.ormsby@leg.wa.gov; lillian.ortiz-self@leg.wa.gov; tina.orwall@leg.wa.gov; dave.paul@leg.wa.gov; jamie.pedersen@leg.wa.gov; strom.peterson@leg.wa.gov; gerry.pollet@leg.wa.gov; alex.ramel@leg.wa.gov; bill.ramos@leg.wa.gov; emily.randall@leg.wa.gov; marcus.riccelli@leg.wa.gov; june.robinson@leg.wa.gov; christine.rolfes@leg.wa.gov; Alicia.Rule@leg.wa.gov; cindy.ryu@leg.wa.gov; rebecca.saldana@leg.wa.gov; jesse.salomon@leg.wa.gov; sharontomiko.santos@leg.wa.gov; mike.sells@leg.wa.gov; tana.senn@leg.wa.gov; timothy.sheldon@leg.wa.gov; sharon.shewmake@leg.wa.gov; Tarra.Simmons@leg.wa.gov; vandana.slatter@leg.wa.gov; larry.springer@leg.wa.gov; derek.stanford@leg.wa.gov; monica.stonier@leg.wa.gov; pat.sullivan@leg.wa.gov; Jamila.Taylor@leg.wa.gov; my-linh.thai@leg.wa.gov; steve.tharinger@leg.wa.gov; javier.valdez@leg.wa.gov; kevin.vandewege@leg.wa.gov; amy.walen@leg.wa.gov; lisa.wellman@leg.wa.gov; emily.wicks@leg.wa.gov; claire.wilson@leg.wa.gov; sharon.wylie@leg.wa.gov

And here are the Republican emails if you want to send a different email to them:

Peter.Abbarno@leg.wa.gov; andrew.barkis@leg.wa.gov; matt.boehnke@leg.wa.gov; john.braun@leg.wa.gov; sharon.brown@leg.wa.gov; michelle.caldier@leg.wa.gov; kelly.chambers@leg.wa.gov; bruce.chandler@leg.wa.gov; Rob.Chase@leg.wa.gov; chris.corry@leg.wa.gov; tom.dent@leg.wa.gov; Perry.Dozier@leg.wa.gov; jeremie.dufault@leg.wa.gov; mary.dye@leg.wa.gov; doug.ericksen@leg.wa.gov; carolyn.eslick@leg.wa.gov; phil.fortunato@leg.wa.gov; Greg.Gilday@leg.wa.gov; chris.gildon@leg.wa.gov; keith.goehner@leg.wa.gov; jenny.graham@leg.wa.gov; dan.griffey@leg.wa.gov; paul.harris@leg.wa.gov; brad.hawkins@leg.wa.gov; larry.hoff@leg.wa.gov; jeff.holy@leg.wa.gov; jim.honeyford@leg.wa.gov; Cyndy.Jacobsen@leg.wa.gov; curtis.king@leg.wa.gov; Mark.Klicker@leg.wa.gov; brad.klippert@leg.wa.gov; vicki.kraft@leg.wa.gov; joel.kretz@leg.wa.gov; drew.macewen@leg.wa.gov; jacquelin.maycumber@leg.wa.gov; bob.mccaslin@leg.wa.gov; jim.mccune@leg.wa.gov; Joel.McEntire@leg.wa.gov; gina.mosbrucker@leg.wa.gov; ron.muzzall@leg.wa.gov; ed.orcutt@leg.wa.gov; mike.padden@leg.wa.gov; ann.rivers@leg.wa.gov; Eric.Robertson@leg.wa.gov; skyler.rude@leg.wa.gov; joe.schmick@leg.wa.gov; mark.schoesler@leg.wa.gov; shelly.short@leg.wa.gov; mike.steele@leg.wa.gov; drew.stokesbary@leg.wa.gov; robert.sutherland@leg.wa.gov; brandon.vick@leg.wa.gov; mike.volz@leg.wa.gov; keith.wagoner@leg.wa.gov; jim.walsh@leg.wa.gov; judith.warnick@leg.wa.gov; jt.wilcox@leg.wa.gov; Jeff.Wilson@leg.wa.gov; lynda.wilson@leg.wa.gov; alex.ybarra@leg.wa.gov; jesse.young@leg.wa.gov

Dude nice job...