WA is doing it's best to drive gun owners out or make them criminals: anyone else planning on moving?

[NCW_Robert]

You're 1/2 correct. Anti-gun illness is spreading anywhere it is actively welcomed. That is correct.

You're 1/2 incorrect. Pro-gun values are spreading as well. Since 2000 here's the advances we've made.

* Shall issue in most states. Reciprocity among most states.
* 2008 saw Heller, in which the SCOTUS declared the 2A is an individual right.
* McDonald case decided to incorporate the Heller decision and 2A to the states.
* Constitutional carry in 16+ states and growing.
* Some form of Castle Doctrine in most states.
* Bush beat Gore. The result was the sunset of the AWB and appointment of important Justices.
* Trump elected, in an unlikely landslide.
* The Federal Courts are looking very favorable.
* Growing "sanctuary" movements for guns.
* The gun markets are on fire. Innovations, major steps forward in designs, and extremely low costs for most modern stuff. The markets are flooded with guns and magazines.

That's just a brief highlights of pro-gun action since 2000.

As a nation, there's a war between pro-and-anti gun sides. I'd say the pro-gun side is overall winning and we are far better suited to prevail.

* We have the guns.
* We have the federal law.
* We have state law on our side.
* Trump is almost certainly going to win and continue appointing pro-2A pro-Constitutional judges. At some point, this state-by-state nonsense will end.
* We have and will retain the Senate in the near term.
* We have a good chance at retaking the House.
* The majority of states are actively pro-gun. Almost every state has a state pro-gun Constitutional amendment.
* By area and population, there's far more areas to live that are pro-gun than anti-gun.

So we have the law, the moral high ground, most of the power, and the guns.

Is is now being said by those who might be in the position to know that Bloomberg is not really trying to be the next president but running because it allows him unlimited personal spending for the upcoming election.

True or not? What matters is what we do to fight it nation wide because we now know Bloomberg $$ is mostly responsible for dems taking the house.

Bloomberg backed anti 2A candidates won in many cases and are responsible for taking the house in the last election. He even says out loud that his plans include backing many more anti 2A candidates in the next house race.

Big money even on the left side does matter. Just saying we need to be ready for that.

In the last election I figured out 30 of the most in need candidates in key house races and donated to them. Some won, some lost. Most are still in contact with me asking for $$.

This next race is going to be huge, not just because Trump needs to win but the house needs to be taken back, but, as I said, big money is going to be working against us. Point being even though most of these people running are out of state, we should step up like never before and support house candidates in key races. I spent a few hundred bucks last year. For this upcoming race I am budgeting a few thousand to support these people who are up against Bloomberg $$.

I know this, if it matters to you that the house be taken back then stop spending $$ on toys for the next year and put that $$ into politics because if we all in every state don't band together and support "our side" then we could loose even more seats, not gain them.

Yes yes I know we now have impeachment to talk about but you all know how clueless certain types of voters can be so what they think they know can be effected by how many untrue outright lying ads they see. Trust me, and you all know this, the democrats and Bloomberg are going to be spouting complete and total lie after lie and you know there will only be us and our $$ paying for ads telling the truth.

Think it over... is it worth thousands of your $$ instead of a miserly 20.00 or 50.00 donation to trump and or a few local candidates and your good to go?

Step up donations and support when it counts or enjoy 4 more yrs of house dems doing impeachment version 2+ as if they keep the house you know what they are going to do? exactly what they are doing now.

~

 

[PaulB47]

I lived in Wyoming for a few years, reddest state in the union. In fact I was associated with Boston T. Party (writer of "Boston's Gun Bible", "Molon Labe" and others) in his "Free State Wyoming" movement, trying to get freedom lovers to move to Wyoming (similar to the Free State Project in NH).

Funny thing, there is no good state government anywhere. It doesn't matter that R's own the legislature there. The general way of thinking in Wyoming is, "It's not socialism when we do it!" Free college for everyone? Wyoming has it.

I do generally like the people though.

Funny that for a very long time, Oregon had a better concealed carry law than Wyoming. Now that Wyoming has "constitutional carry", that is no longer so.

I am back, in Vancouver now, mostly because of my wife. I simply ignore the laws as best as I can, and wait for the economic crash and the Revolution.

By the way, I don't think either moving or staying is a bad path. To each his own...

 

[CountryGent]

WA is doing it's best to drive gun owners out or make them criminals: anyone else planning on moving?

Not in Washington, but Oregon has the same problem, and, yes, we're planning on bailing. In our case to Arizona. Idaho is nice, but too cold, and, to a lesser concern, a bit too conservative for our tastes. Nevada looked like a veritable paradise for someone wanting to live free, and I came damn close to buying 42 acres there, but they are rapidly turning blue and will likely be one the next ones to fall.

Progress has been slow. Largely due to being slammed in my work life, but also logistical and family reasons. And one recent afternoon, driving around the back country with my family I got honest with myself that I don't want to leave Oregon. It is a beautiful state and I was born here and my family is here. Be that as it may, I don't ever see things changing for the better: just more taxes, more bullplop regulations, more gun control, most hostility to private businesses, and the ever present dynamic of the cities royally screwing the rural communities. I vote pro-freedom every cycle, donate good sums of money to pro-2A (and other pro-freedom) groups, I write my critters at times, but all amounts to a hill of beans. Those that want to dictate how people live don't care. So, what else is there to do?

 

[ACO]

Found a house in WV, with over x4 the sqft of our house, over 10x the acreage we have now, and $1000 less in taxes for the over all same appraisal value of my house here in Kitsap county. Only problem: my career takes a 40% pay cut if we move there.

 

[Dwesson]

Idaho is nice, but too cold, and, to a lesser concern, a bit too conservative for our tastes.

 

[Gunflint1]

Explain..What is too Conservative?

 

[helitack32f1]

Here are my thoughts on this whole thing, and they probably won't be popular. The leftist anti-gunners are winning because they have more balls and less cowardice than the right and gun owners, and the main evidence of this is all those who say "That's it, I'm leaving!" Change a few words and it becomes "That's it, I'm a quitter. I give up. Run away!".

What is the logical conclusion of all this? It is repeating over and over across this country. Liberals move in to a non liberal area, red state, city, whatever. Ironically, they are leaving hell holes created by their very own loony ideas and voting habits. They start to become activists, activists that NEVER give up and they continue until they get their way, once again voting in a way to bring about policies like they did before, thus ruining yet another part of the country. The conservatives, traditionalists, republicans, whatever you want to call them are likely to sit back, complain but do little or nothing. This continues until the people on the right can no longer take it and they declare, "That's it, i'm leaving!" and they move to a more free state, town, county whatever. And then the process starts again. You may move to a more conservative area but it will not stay that way because they are headed there next. In the end, we have ceded the entire nation to them and their ideals and have nowhere else to go. Those of you talking about moving to Idaho, have you looked at Boise lately?

Why are we allowing them to push us out? Why aren't we moving into their areas and becoming activist for our ideals and making them move? Without a huge change in the way we go about this, we will lose. Period.

Another problem is evidenced by a post above me declaring that Idaho may be "A little too conservative." I can only believe this is a reference to religious convictions. Every possible type of liberal is fighting together to take your rights away but you won't fight with someone for your inalienable rights because they believe in God? Inalienable rights are rights that come from God, not man and therefore cannot be taken away by man. This is yet another reason we are losing this battle. With the nation turning away from God, There really cannot be anything but a decline in those believing in the inalienable right and this is why the leftists have absolutely no problem believing that the government has the right and ability to take away such rights.

The only way we make a dent in the short term is to figure out how to get our side to vote with 100% turnout. We cannot convince enough people to come to our side to make a difference but if we can get 50% more of our voters to turn out than they do, we win. once we start winning and enacting positive winning policies, more people will come to our side. Second, we make sure that our side makes a truly researched and informed decision. These simple ideas make a lot more sense than running away and then waiting for the inevitable leftist shift and then moving again until we have nowhere to go.

 

[Dwesson]

Here are my thoughts on this whole thing, and they probably won't be popular. The leftist anti-gunners are winning because they have more balls and less cowardice than the right and gun owners, and the main evidence of this is all those who say "That's it, I'm leaving!" Change a few words and it becomes "That's it, I'm a quitter. I give up. Run away!".

What is the logical conclusion of all this? It is repeating over and over across this country. Liberals move in to a non liberal area, red state, city, whatever. Ironically, they are leaving hell holes created by their very own loony ideas and voting habits. They start to become activists, activists that NEVER give up and they continue until they get their way, once again voting in a way to bring about policies like they did before, thus ruining yet another part of the country. The conservatives, traditionalists, republicans, whatever you want to call them are likely to sit back, complain but do little or nothing. This continues until the people on the right can no longer take it and they declare, "That's it, i'm leaving!" and they move to a more free state, town, county whatever. And then the process starts again. You may move to a more conservative area but it will not stay that way because they are headed there next. In the end, we have ceded the entire nation to them and their ideals and have nowhere else to go. Those of you talking about moving to Idaho, have you looked at Boise lately?

Why are we allowing them to push us out? Why aren't we moving into their areas and becoming activist for our ideals and making them move? Without a huge change in the way we go about this, we will lose. Period.

Another problem is evidenced by a post above me declaring that Idaho may be "A little too conservative." I can only believe this is a reference to religious convictions. Every possible type of liberal is fighting together to take your rights away but you won't fight with someone for your inalienable rights because they believe in God? Inalienable rights are rights that come from God, not man and therefore cannot be taken away by man. This is yet another reason we are losing this battle. With the nation turning away from God, There really cannot be anything but a decline in those believing in the inalienable right and this is why the leftists have absolutely no problem believing that the government has the right and ability to take away such rights.

The only way we make a dent in the short term is to figure out how to get our side to vote with 100% turnout. We cannot convince enough people to come to our side to make a difference but if we can get 50% more of our voters to turn out than they do, we win. once we start winning and enacting positive winning policies, more people will come to our side. Second, we make sure that our side makes a truly researched and informed decision. These simple ideas make a lot more sense than running away and then waiting for the inevitable leftist shift and then moving again until we have nowhere to go.

High density population centers drive collectivism. Certainly a lot of the folks moving into the more rural locations come from liberal strongholds and bring their poor politics with them, but as areas grow denser the body politic moves left as well.

There have been books written about the subject, but the general thesis is that people in more densely populated areas begin to rely on the municipality more and more. The municipality starts regulating and controlling more and thus you have people dependent on the government.

Example:

1) More rural county, person decides to cut down a tree that is a hazard or blocking their view. Takes out chainsaw, cuts down tree.
2) Land developer buys large tract of land around rural person. Creates development, more people move in.
3) Someone decides to cut down a tree. Another person complains that that tree provided shade/privacy or some other bullbubblegum. Neighbor is annoyed when they said "Tough titties, tree is on my property".
4) Angry neighbor being told to pound sand goes to the town council and gets enough Karens to go with them and next thing you know you can't cut down a tree on your own property.
5) Some activist starts reviewing the tree permits and gets pissy that some spotted bird no one has ever heard of only nests in the trees in this town, petitions that council that only X number of permits for tree removal will be issued in a certain year "for the spotted singsong".
6) Now the tree needs to be measured a certain size by some clown in city government before a permit is even issued.
7) People cut down trees anyway, because "that's the way it's always been and this is my property".
8) You cut down a tree without a permit we fine you $10K and your first born child is forced to go to our indoctrination camp, I mean school.

You can apply this to virtually everything the government over regulates in a densely populated city versus the lack of regulation in a more rural setting. Transportation, having a fire in your backyard, shooting on your property etc.

Most people don't vote, even in WA with 100% absentee ballots and no stamp required. There's literally a tiny fraction of effort required, and voter turnout is something like ~30%.

Now, of the people that DO vote, they vote on issues that affect their wallet. When doing so they tend to vote overwhelmingly in favor of themselves when they feel the price of the legislation. This is why whenever you get a piece of legislation for a school levy they always say something like "Oh this is for new diversity computers at school XXX because the term "laptop" isn't inclusive to people that don't identify as having a lap. It's going to cost you $0.15 per $1,000 of assessed value of your property. Then most numbskulls go "Oh it's only $0.15c!" versus knowing what the county assesses their home at and doing the math to actually find out inclusive computers for lapless at the local school is going to cost you $700 annually.

That's why the WA State License tab issue won something like 60/40.

The main population counties in WA (King/Pierce/Snohomish) were smacked upside the head with a ludicrous RTA tax for the stupid light rail that they voted on. If Sound Transit had decided to boil the frog by turning up the temp slowly (ratcheting up license fees over time) vs tossing the frog into the boiling water, it wouldn't have jumped out so fast. People's tabs went up dramatically, essentially overnight.

Folks that "liked the idea of the light rail", but didn't realize how much it was going to cost to implement because it was coming out of their property taxes and the WSDOT/Fed funds etc all of a sudden were actually forced to write a check then and their for something they knew they weren't going to use and it was substantial. Like potentially several months worth of fuel costs, just for their tabs. They all said "yeah this sounds nice, but $30 tabs sound better".

The gun ownership problem is that gun owners aren't some monolithic voting block. You have gun owners that are actually in favor of some of the laws on the books now. These people don't understand the 2nd amendment. Literally there are hunters that may own multiple rifles and shotguns that say "You don't need 15 rounds to hunt", you have people that have a revolver they inherited from a grandparent that sits in a drawer, sure they may be a "gun owner", but they could care less about semi-automatic rifles, background checks, mandatory classes etc.

All of this is to say that, between the general apathy of the average resident towards voting, the apathy of some of the gun owning public, and the part of the gun owning public that AGREES with the legislation, you're left with two people voting against all these laws that infringe on our 2nd Amendment Right.

1. People that actually own firearms that are affected by this legislation and want more/use them (Dad's Ruger 10/22 that he gave him as a kid and sits in a closet doesn't count, they may own an "assault rifle" now but they don't see these laws effecting them).
2. People who may or may not be firearms enthusiasts, but understand the Constitution and the purpose and importance of the 2nd amendment.

Given that they don't teach civics in school anymore, and what is taught is basically drivel approved by the "school district" and taught by teachers (many of whom have a liberal bent that encourage uniformity of thought by punishing dissenting opinion), the pool of people in "Group 2" shrinks daily as those age out of the voting pool.

So your options are to grow Group 1 or try and educate people into Group 2. Both are tough, require a lot of time and effort, but it's what we need to do to retain our rights....

 

[Gunflint1]

Here are my thoughts on this whole thing, and they probably won't be popular. The leftist anti-gunners are winning because they have more balls and less cowardice than the right and gun owners, and the main evidence of this is all those who say "That's it, I'm leaving!" Change a few words and it becomes "That's it, I'm a quitter. I give up. Run away!".

What is the logical conclusion of all this? It is repeating over and over across this country. Liberals move in to a non liberal area, red state, city, whatever. Ironically, they are leaving hell holes created by their very own loony ideas and voting habits. They start to become activists, activists that NEVER give up and they continue until they get their way, once again voting in a way to bring about policies like they did before, thus ruining yet another part of the country. The conservatives, traditionalists, republicans, whatever you want to call them are likely to sit back, complain but do little or nothing. This continues until the people on the right can no longer take it and they declare, "That's it, i'm leaving!" and they move to a more free state, town, county whatever. And then the process starts again. You may move to a more conservative area but it will not stay that way because they are headed there next. In the end, we have ceded the entire nation to them and their ideals and have nowhere else to go. Those of you talking about moving to Idaho, have you looked at Boise lately?

Why are we allowing them to push us out? Why aren't we moving into their areas and becoming activist for our ideals and making them move? Without a huge change in the way we go about this, we will lose. Period.

Another problem is evidenced by a post above me declaring that Idaho may be "A little too conservative." I can only believe this is a reference to religious convictions. Every possible type of liberal is fighting together to take your rights away but you won't fight with someone for your inalienable rights because they believe in God? Inalienable rights are rights that come from God, not man and therefore cannot be taken away by man. This is yet another reason we are losing this battle. With the nation turning away from God, There really cannot be anything but a decline in those believing in the inalienable right and this is why the leftists have absolutely no problem believing that the government has the right and ability to take away such rights.

The only way we make a dent in the short term is to figure out how to get our side to vote with 100% turnout. We cannot convince enough people to come to our side to make a difference but if we can get 50% more of our voters to turn out than they do, we win. once we start winning and enacting positive winning policies, more people will come to our side. Second, we make sure that our side makes a truly researched and informed decision. These simple ideas make a lot more sense than running away and then waiting for the inevitable leftist shift and then moving again until we have nowhere to go.

Here are my thoughts on this whole thing, and they probably won't be popular. The leftist anti-gunners are winning because they have more balls and less cowardice than the right and gun owners, and the main evidence of this is all those who say "That's it, I'm leaving!" Change a few words and it becomes "That's it, I'm a quitter. I give up. Run away!".

What is the logical conclusion of all this? It is repeating over and over across this country. Liberals move in to a non liberal area, red state, city, whatever. Ironically, they are leaving hell holes created by their very own loony ideas and voting habits. They start to become activists, activists that NEVER give up and they continue until they get their way, once again voting in a way to bring about policies like they did before, thus ruining yet another part of the country. The conservatives, traditionalists, republicans, whatever you want to call them are likely to sit back, complain but do little or nothing. This continues until the people on the right can no longer take it and they declare, "That's it, i'm leaving!" and they move to a more free state, town, county whatever. And then the process starts again. You may move to a more conservative area but it will not stay that way because they are headed there next. In the end, we have ceded the entire nation to them and their ideals and have nowhere else to go. Those of you talking about moving to Idaho, have you looked at Boise lately?

Why are we allowing them to push us out? Why aren't we moving into their areas and becoming activist for our ideals and making them move? Without a huge change in the way we go about this, we will lose. Period.

Another problem is evidenced by a post above me declaring that Idaho may be "A little too conservative." I can only believe this is a reference to religious convictions. Every possible type of liberal is fighting together to take your rights away but you won't fight with someone for your inalienable rights because they believe in God? Inalienable rights are rights that come from God, not man and therefore cannot be taken away by man. This is yet another reason we are losing this battle. With the nation turning away from God, There really cannot be anything but a decline in those believing in the inalienable right and this is why the leftists have absolutely no problem believing that the government has the right and ability to take away such rights.

The only way we make a dent in the short term is to figure out how to get our side to vote with 100% turnout. We cannot convince enough people to come to our side to make a difference but if we can get 50% more of our voters to turn out than they do, we win. once we start winning and enacting positive winning policies, more people will come to our side. Second, we make sure that our side makes a truly researched and informed decision. These simple ideas make a lot more sense than running away and then waiting for the inevitable leftist shift and then moving again until we have nowhere to go.

Many of the the things you stated are true, some questionable, & others I don't agree with. I live in a Super Liberal State, but so far the Pro-Gun has been holding it's own. Why ? Getting involved, getting loud about it(if necessary), not taking sheet from any Public Servant.. Many of us in my rural area were transplants because of business. I made it Very Clear to those living around me how important getting involved with what their Township/County/State. Get out, & meet your neighbors!! I found many women in my area with bigger balls then some of these Homer Simpson types living here... Many men here can tell you what the score of a Ball Game is, but can't tell you who their Attorney General is. So be it, let the Alpha females carry the load. It's kind of a David & Goliath story, I can tell you one person can make a difference! Maybe you won't win,(or liked)but you sure as hell will earn their respect. When you walk into that City/Township meeting you want them to groan & take notice, then your doing your job as an American.. I will be leaving this area soon, not because I'm driven out but to an arthritis
friendly climate. Retired, but surrender is not an option.