Washington WA Gun Shows - Background Checks? FFL?

[Boyandhisdogs]

I live in Washington and I have never purchased a gun at a gun show before. How does the transfer and background check work? Do they have FFLs on site to handle the transfers?

Are there any fees (transfer fees from FFL, from the show itself, etc) and do you pay taxes on used guns?

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[drstrangelove]

You do the 4473 at the show and pay yer money. The FFL will call you to pick up your gun at their store in 2wks (although the BRC only takes a day or so in my experience).

So it's super important to make sure the seller is local enough drive to, otherwise you are looking at paying for shipping to your local FFL to do the deed, and pay their FFL transfer fee.

If an FFL is selling a used gun, it gets taxed. Only person to person transfers are excluded from tax.

The seller does not exact an FFL fee typically.

 

[Xrperry]

Last time I was going to do a person to person transfer it was going to cost 58.00 in spokane. On a 125.00 gun. Nope didn't buy it

 

[gmerkt]

Say you find a gun you want to buy from another attendee, not a dealer. This is a private sale. How it works:

1. You give your money to the seller.

2. The seller gives the gun to the transferring dealer.

3. The seller leaves with your money, the dealer leaves with your gun, you leave with nothing.

4. You hope that nothing goes wrong. Somehow or another, you have to arrange how to pick up your gun when it's convenient to the dealer.

If you buy from an FFL dealer:

1. You pay your money.

2. The dealer keeps the gun.

3. You go home with nothing.

4. Somehow or another, you have to arrange how to pick up your gun when it's convenient to the dealer.

A process that I refuse to participate in. It's less flaky and usually less time consuming to buy from a brick and mortar dealer. You're no more likely to buy a dog from a dealer than from some yutz at a gun show, who may be trying to flog a problem gun.

At the Washington Arms Collectors shows ("meetings"), few though there are these days, they arrange to have a facilitating dealer on site to process private sales. Last I knew, these involved a minimal fee to encourage participation. When I-594 first came about, the fee was $10 but it may be more now. But I'm sure it isn't up to $50 to $75 like some FFL's.

 

[gunsmithkinks]

I know that gunshops I've been to over the years also don't charge tax IF it is a
" consignment gun" the FLL Dealers said since it is not legally "their gun", so they don't tax that when it's sold for a customer on consignment.

But, if the gunshop owns the gun themselves, then they charge tax they said. That's mostly pretty much been my experience buying from gun/ pawnshop businesses.

 

[drstrangelove]

I know that gunshops I've been to over the years also don't charge tax IF it is a
" consignment gun" the FLL Dealers said since it is not legally "their gun", so they don't tax that when it's sold for a customer on consignment.

But, if the gunshop owns the gun themselves, then they charge tax they said. That's mostly pretty much been my experience buying from gun/ pawnshop businesses.

That did not work out for me in the past. I bought a Kimber on consignment from an out of state FFL and was charged WA use tax by the transferring FFL.

 

[gunsmithkinks]

Yea not sure why, I've bought a lot over the yrs but buying from gunshops IN Washington state I mean I never been charged tax on a consignment gun. And most out if state wholesalers have words in big bold red letters in the site saying if you are not a resident of thier state they do " not" charge sales tax.

They also said when you purchase that way out of state a person is not purchasing the gun in the state in which they live. Same way with buying guns from individuals who ship to FFL Dealers to do the transfer in a state in which you reside.

 

[Boyandhisdogs]

I'm sure this varies, but are the majority of people selling at gun shows around here FFL holders? I mean people with tables, not people wandering around with one or two guns.

I'm mainly interested in funky old shotguns at a price I can't refuse. Single shots, combo guns, oddball A5 variants, that kind of thing. I remember seeing stuff like that all the time when I was a kid, but it's been 15+ years since I've been to a gun show at all, let alone a good one. Does that sound like a realistic desire? Or will I be going home with nothing but some candy and popcorn? It sounds like the fees add up pretty quick on "cheap" guns.

I've also been in the market for a S&W 442, but I could easily buy one new if I can't get a good deal on a lightly used one.

 

[gmerkt]

I know that gunshops I've been to over the years also don't charge tax IF it is a
" consignment gun" the FLL Dealers said since it is not legally "their gun", so they don't tax that when it's sold for a customer on consignment.

The dealer I use doesn't charge state sales tax on consignment guns either. He treats them as private transfers. But I'm pretty sure that some dealers do. And some of these may pocket the difference. I don't know what the Dept. of Revenue says about it. All other goods sold on consignment require collection of sales tax. The private transfer of firearms is a finer point of law. The kind of thing you may not be able to look up in actual published legislation. If it's been addressed specifically, it's probably been done by a letter of instruction or something of that sort from the DOR.

That did not work out for me in the past. I bought a Kimber on consignment from an out of state FFL and was charged WA use tax by the transferring FFL.

Most such purchases these days are made through third party facilitators, like Gunbroker. Which since April 1, 2021, is set up to collect state sales taxes automatically for those states that require it. I don't think out-of-state private sale transactions are are specifically mentioned in I-594, which waives sales tax collection for private sales. In any case, it might be too nuanced to expect Gunbroker to make exceptions to their computer-driven model. BUT: A private sale is a private sale; if the law doesn't specifically address in or out of state, it shouldn't be in dispute. It's a private sale no matter where it comes from. Getting all parties involved in a transaction to accept this logic is another matter.

I'm sure this varies, but are the majority of people selling at gun shows around here FFL holders? I mean people with tables, not people wandering around with one or two guns.

In my limited experience, at present you won't find many non-table holders walking around with guns they are trying to sell. It's just gotten to be too difficult to transact on that basis. Especially since the mandatory 10 day working day wait went into effect within the past year. In Wash., they've tightened the screws down very hard without actually making gun shows illegal.

I know that gunshops I've been to over the years also don't charge tax IF it is a
" consignment gun" the FLL Dealers said since it is not legally "their gun", so they don't tax that when it's sold for a customer on consignment.

Well, the ATF requires FFL dealers to enter consignment guns on their books. See:

How does a licensee handle the sale of a consignment firearm? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Firearms received for sale on consignment must be entered in the licensee’s acquisition and disposition record. The sale of a consignment firearm is handled in the same manner as other firearm sales. Return of any consigned firearms by the licensee to the consignor must be entered in the...

www.atf.gov

In this sense, the ATF makes it "their gun" to the extent that it goes on their books. How that might affect sales tax collection is another question pondered above.

Note in the link I've provided above, the ATF requires that if a gun on consignment is returned to the would-be seller, it goes off the books back to that person and is subject to a BCG.

 

[GWS]

I live in Washington and I have never purchased a gun at a gun show before. How does the transfer and background check work? Do they have FFLs on site to handle the transfers?

Are there any fees (transfer fees from FFL, from the show itself, etc) and do you pay taxes on used guns?

I have to say that I have never found a deal at a gun show that I couldn't beat at my local shops. Now there may be a curio or some other rare gun at the gun show that you cannot find elsewhere, but if you're looking for a basic gun such as a Glock, or Springfield etc then check your local shops

 

[coltemp]

I'm sure this varies, but are the majority of people selling at gun shows around here FFL holders? I mean people with tables, not people wandering around with one or two guns.

I'm mainly interested in funky old shotguns at a price I can't refuse. Single shots, combo guns, oddball A5 variants, that kind of thing. I remember seeing stuff like that all the time when I was a kid, but it's been 15+ years since I've been to a gun show at all, let alone a good one. Does that sound like a realistic desire? Or will I be going home with nothing but some candy and popcorn? It sounds like the fees add up pretty quick on "cheap" guns.

I've also been in the market for a S&W 442, but I could easily buy one new if I can't get a good deal on a lightly used one.

Since you are into older guns look at getting your C&R license. Then you can walk away with the firearm right then in there as long as it goes into your bound book. There are a few more details but that is why many of us who are into older firearms have our C&R to avoid the hassles Washington state has made the transfers, along with the extra taxes for doing so and the silly wait time.

 

[Sporting Systems]

In my limited experience, at present you won't find many non-table holders walking around with guns they are trying to sell. It's just gotten to be too difficult to transact on that basis. Especially since the mandatory 10 day working day wait went into effect within the past year. In Wash., they've tightened the screws down very hard without actually making gun shows illegal.

And HB2118 has essentially made gun shows illegal (July 1 2025), as the shows cannot meet the storage and security requirements, audio and video recording requirements, and such. Its already taken out a pile of FFLS in WA and will take out at least 50%-75% of the remaining dealers. Too expensive and intrusive to comply with.