WA full auto ownership?

[Blitzkrieg]

Thats the problem with M203's. Manufacturers will not sell grenades to individuals. You can buy beehive .22 rounds, shot rounds, been bag rounds, chalk rounds, Maybe even tear gas but good luck finding actual grenades for it. If you did it would be $200 tax per unit by their own DD status.

OK, that is what I read long ago. Not good from a 2nd amendment standpoint.. there are buckshot rounds, but that does not justify the launcher, IMO, just a modern LeMat revolver concept

 

[BIG_GUNNUT]

On most NFA items that true but the Brady Bill does not explicitly call for background checks on silencers. It does apply to all other NFA "frearms" but Silencers are not specified.



John Titsworth has a pretty good NFA tutorial up on PDF

http://www.silencerresearch.com/Silencerguide.pdf

This is only from his FAQ but its what Ive found to apply at every transfer Ive ever done...

"Your dealer will contact you: Your dealer will contact you
when your paperwork is cleared and only then can you go pick up
your silencer. You will be required to fill out an ATF Form 4473 (the
usual form when you buy a gun over the counter) when you pick up
your silencer. The NICS check is not required for NFA transfers."


The applicable code seems to be 18 U.S.C. section 922(t)(3)(B) concerning when the NCIS checks must be performed. As the transfer has been approved by the attorney general it is not REQUIRED to do a NICS check. Some dealers may want to CYA but a "requirement" and CYA are not the same thing.

(3) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to a firearm transfer between a licensee and another person if—
(A)
(i) such other person has presented to the licensee a permit that—
(I) allows such other person to possess or acquire a firearm; and
(II) was issued not more than 5 years earlier by the State in which the transfer is to take place; and
(ii) the law of the State provides that such a permit is to be issued only after an authorized government official has verified that the information available to such official does not indicate that possession of a firearm by such other person would be in violation of law;
(B) the Attorney General has approved the transfer under section 5812 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986


for lots of good reading....

<broken link removed>


And finally from James Bardwells vast repository...

http://www.titleii.com/bardwell/atf_letter65.txt

As you indicate, the transfer of a properly registered National
Firearms Act (NFA) weapon to a nonlicensee is exempt from the NICS
requirements per 18 U.S.C. section 922(t)(3)(B). Therefore, if a
transfer occurs involving an NFA firearm, such as a silencer, and
that NFA firearm is an integral part of the complete firearm, then
no NICS check is required. "Integral part" would mean permanently
attached or installed."


Of course there may be outstanding dealer directives instructing dealers to do NICS checks on trust silencer transfers but I have not been able to find any reference in the US code or ATF regs..

26 U.S.C. Chapter 53, Subchapter B, Part 1, 5845

 

[coctailer]

On most NFA items that true but the Brady Bill does not explicitly call for background checks on silencers. It does apply to all other NFA "frearms" but Silencers are not specified.


Of course there may be outstanding dealer directives instructing dealers to do NICS checks on trust silencer transfers but I have not been able to find any reference in the US code or ATF regs..

The ATF is saying we are supposed to do it. Only on trusts though.
Felons can own trusts.
It is not called in when transferred to an individual.

It only takes 2 minutes to do anywhoo.

 

[wired]

26 U.S.C. Chapter 53, Subchapter B, Part 1, 5845

Not quite. Yes, a silencer is a firearm under the USC. So is a shotgun. So is a Rifle. Only handguns require Brady Act specified background checks. A silencer only requires a 4473 just like shotguns and rifles do.



(a) Firearm
The term “firearm” means
(1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
(2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
(3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
(4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
(5) any other weapon, as defined in subsection (e);
(6) a machinegun;
(7) any silencer (as defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code); and
(8) a destructive device. The term “firearm” shall not include an antique firearm or any device (other than a machinegun or destructive device) which, although designed as a weapon, the Secretary finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector’s item and is not likely to be used as a weapon.

 

[wired]

The ATF is saying we are supposed to do it. Only on trusts though.
Felons can own trusts.
It is not called in when transferred to an individual.

It only takes 2 minutes to do anywhoo.

But nothing in the US Code ? Is this just a dealer instruction ( that many dealers do not do? ). Iv'e bought a lot of silencers on a trust. Never done a Brady Check on any of them. Dealer instructions do not carry the force of law.


(t)(1) Beginning on the date that is 30 days after the Attorney
General notifies licensees under section 103(d) of the Brady Handgun
Violence Prevention Act that the national instant criminal background
check system is established, a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer,
or licensed dealer shall not transfer a firearm to any other person who
is not licensed under this chapter, unless--
(A) before the completion of the transfer, the licensee contacts
the national instant criminal background check system established
under section 103 of that Act;
(B)(i) the system provides the licensee with a unique
identification number; or
(ii) 3 business days (meaning a day on which State offices are
open) have elapsed since the licensee contacted the system, and the
system has not notified the licensee that the receipt of a firearm
by such other person would violate subsection (g) or (n) of this
section; and
(C) the transferor has verified the identity of the transferee
by examining a valid identification document (as defined in section
1028(d) of this title) of the transferee containing a photograph of
the transferee.

(2) If receipt of a firearm would not violate subsection (g) or (n)
or State law, the system shall--
(A) assign a unique identification number to the transfer;
(B) provide the licensee with the number; and
(C) destroy all records of the system with respect to the call
(other than the identifying number and the date the number was
assigned) and all records of the system relating to the person or
the transfer.

(3) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to a firearm transfer between a
licensee and another person if--
(A)(i) such other person has presented to the licensee a permit
that--
(I) allows such other person to possess or acquire a
firearm; and
(II) was issued not more than 5 years earlier by the State
in which the transfer is to take place; and

(ii) the law of the State provides that such a permit is to be
issued only after an authorized government official has verified
that the information available to such official does not indicate
that possession of a firearm by such other person would be in
violation of law;
(B) the Attorney General has approved the transfer under section
5812 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986; or
(C) on application of the transferor, the Attorney General has
certified that compliance with paragraph (1)(A) is impracticable
because--
(i) the ratio of the number of law enforcement officers of
the State in which the transfer is to occur to the number of
square miles of land area of the State does not exceed 0.0025;
(ii) the business premises of the licensee at which the
transfer is to occur are extremely remote in relation to the
chief law enforcement officer (as defined in subsection (s)(8));
and
(iii) there is an absence of telecommunications facilities
in the geographical area in which the business premises are
located.

 

[coctailer]

But nothing in the US Code ? Is this just a dealer instruction ( that many dealers do not do? ). Iv'e bought a lot of silencers on a trust. Never done a Brady Check on any of them.

They just say the dealer is supposed to do it.
I know some dealers don't (even on machine guns) because they simply don't know that they are supposed to.

You can call the ATF here in PDX and ask for the proof.
503-331-7830

 

[coctailer]

Not quite. Yes, a silencer is a firearm under the USC. So is a shotgun. So is a Rifle. Only handguns require Brady Act specified background checks.

I have to call in a NICS check on rifles and shotguns also.

 

[wired]

They just say the dealer is supposed to do it.
I know some dealers don't (even on machine guns) because they simply don't know that they are supposed to.

You can call the ATF here in PDX and ask for the proof.
503-331-7830

Its not that they are supposed to . Its that are they arent supposed to and the ATF is telling the dealer to do something they do no have the authority to do. Is it a good idea? Sure. Is it a legal requirement? No, its not. An ATF agent telling me on the phone that a dealer has to perform a background check on a non pistol purchase carries no weight of law. The US code specifically exempts NFA purchases from background checks and does not specify that trust purchases require a background check.

 

[coctailer]

Its not that they are supposed to . Its that are they arent supposed to and the ATF is telling the dealer to do something they do no have the authority to do. Is it a good idea? Sure. Is it a legal requirement? No, its not. An ATF agent telling me on the phone that a dealer has to perform a background check on a non pistol purchase carries no weight of law. The US code specifically exempts NFA purchases from background checks and does not specify that trust purchases require a background check.

I'm saying you should call the number above and they can give you the Code,Law,Reg, you require.

You may want to start a new thread about this. This thread is about full-auto and WA.

Not FFL procedures.

 

[wired]

I have to call in a NICS check on rifles and shotguns also.

Yep your right about the rifle and shotgun thing. I was thinking WA state waiting period. In any case the NFA is exempted from Brady Act Brady checks and there is no clause for trust purchases requiring a check. I'm sure the ATF might have started asking dealers to run NICS checks on trust purchases since I gave my license up 6 years ago but they don't have the legal authority to prosecute a dealer for not running the check on NFA items.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

After skimming through all that my head is spinning

 

[THC101]

You can install it on a weapon you just cant fire it with the silencer attached. If you get caught doing so its a misdemeanor. Oh no !!!! So don't get caught. And no, I don't care one bit about committing misdemeanors.

No new machine guns. Sorry. You can own big bore DD's and AOW's.

I believe they'd confiscate your suppressor in the process also.

 

[wired]

I believe they'd confiscate your suppressor in the process also.

Good luck hearing me shooting with a silencer. Stupid law I don't have any problem advocating breaking

 

[THC101]

Good luck hearing me shooting with a silencer. Stupid law I don't have any problem advocating breaking

truth to that. ive heard of a guy on here showing some shooters his suppressor and they valled the cops on him :/, just be cautious bro

 

[fry]

become an ffl get your 07 manufacturing and an SOT and build your own dealer samples.

 

[wired]

truth to that. ive heard of a guy on here showing some shooters his suppressor and they valled the cops on him :/, just be cautious bro

Vast woodlands. I worry not.

 

[waltermitty]

After skimming through all that my head is spinning

tangentially related....and guaranteed to further push you over the edge.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

tangentially related....and guaranteed to further push you over the edge.

Believe me, I am hanging on by my fingernails, already

 

[Humpyslayer]

I'm not sure if this is right, but I've been told if you "own a corporation" and get a Class II Manufacturers License, you can build your own machine guns. A few years ago at work, these 2 dudes came in with short barreled 9mm select fire AR's. I asked them how the heck they got them in WA (there were a couple dudes with pre 94 guns like a tommy gun that was full auto and a pre 94 SBR AR that I'd see from time to time but these guys were in there early 20's and too young to have owned them back then). They told me they had a "store front" and a Class II License to manufacturer. I'd be curious to hear some feedback on if this is correct. My coworkers said that's how it works but wasn't sure if they knew what they were talking about.

 

[wired]

Sure. You can get an 02/07 and build machineguns yourself and own them legally in WA. You just have to maintain a manufacturers license and pay the FFL fees and state business license, sales tax, B&O tax, State dept ITAR fees etc. Minimum it will cost is a bit more than $2000 a year. You have to do business to satisfy the ATF, be properly zoned and maintain the normal FFL bound books etc. Big pain in the *** but if the money is worth it to you to own full auto then go for it. When you let the FFL go you have to destroy or sell your post samples and you cannot keep pre samples like you can in most states.