WA full auto ownership?

[Blitzkrieg]

Yes, they live in free states.

You can do it in WA with AOWs, Silencers, and Destructive Devices though.

I know of one "Silencer Corperation" in WA.

Thanks, you learn something new every day

 

[badclam]

I have a question. I have a place in Oregon, although Wa. state is my place of residence.Can I use my Oregon address to obtain a MG as long as I leave it in Or.State? Or better yet can someone who lives in Wa. buy a MG and leave it in Or. State at a friends or whatever?
My point is it against the law for a Wa. resident to own a MG if they don't bring it into the state?

 

[BIG_GUNNUT]

I have a question. I have a place in Oregon, although Wa. state is my place of residence.Can I use my Oregon address to obtain a MG as long as I leave it in Or.State? Or better yet can someone who lives in Wa. buy a MG and leave it in Or. State at a friends or whatever?
My point is it against the law for a Wa. resident to own a MG if they don't bring it into the state?

I have a Washington customer with an Oregon based trust with machineguns. So, yes that should be possible.

 

[mhadix]

my brother lives in a "free" state and has a full auto(tax stamp included)
if he were to move here(WA), would that mean he must sale it? or would he be able to own it here also?

 

[wired]

He wouldn't necessarily have to sell it but he could not bring it into Washington state. He could put it into secure storage in a free state.

 

[Stumps]

my brother lives in a "free" state and has a full auto(tax stamp included)
if he were to move here(WA), would that mean he must sale it? or would he be able to own it here also?

He could sell it or store it securely out of WA. Bringing it here would be illegal. Some guys will leave the MG with family or friends, which is legal as it is locked up and they do not have access. Lots of people store their NFA items in safe deposit boxes at banks when they move. You can always go back and pick it up later, just don't miss a payment.

 

[wired]

If the MG is under a trust he could add someone else as a trustee and they could have access to it while he is gone too.

 

[waltermitty]

If the MG is under a trust he could add someone else as a trustee and they could have access to it while he is gone too.

(devil in the details) this is possible only if the added 'trustee' is legally qualified
to own firearms. one can't just sign up friends, family, etc and convey access
to them, without otherwise acknowledging the provisions of fed/local laws.

 

[wired]

(devil in the details) this is possible only if the added 'trustee' is legally qualified
to own firearms. one can't just sign up friends, family, etc and convey access
to them, without otherwise acknowledging the provisions of fed/local laws.

That goes without saying.

 

[waltermitty]

wasn't so much a correction than it was a clarification. you'd be surprised how many
folks will hear from web/friends of this perceived option and whoop it up, believing they
can become a big club, despire their disqualification non-resident status, alien, prior
conviction, etc

 

[Blitzkrieg]

(devil in the details) this is possible only if the added 'trustee' is legally qualified
to own firearms. one can't just sign up friends, family, etc and convey access
to them, without otherwise acknowledging the provisions of fed/local laws.

Does the new added trustee need to also get a tax stamp and/or file anything with ATF? Or are they simply added? And when creating the trust who is checked out by ATF if there are several trustees? This is interesting stuff

 

[4Freedom]

Best answer is to move to Oregon, thats what I did. Well, I didn't move back here for that reason, but who wants to live in a state with such restrictive gun laws. On a bright note, getting a concealed weapon permit in Washington, even as an out-of-stater is cake, even by Oregon's lenient permit standards.

 

[wired]

Does the new added trustee need to also get a tax stamp and/or file anything with ATF? Or are they simply added? And when creating the trust who is checked out by ATF if there are several trustees? This is interesting stuff

No one is checked out. Trusts don't have backgrounds. Trustess don't get background checks because the trustee doesnt own the trust or anything in it. He's just in charge of it but he is legally entitled to use anything in it and add items or remove them and to add or remove trustees. Adding or removing a trustee can be done at any time with no notification of the ATF. Its the loophole from h3ll.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

No one is checked out. Trusts don't have backgrounds. Trustess don't get background checks because the trustee doesnt own the trust or anything in it. He's just in charge of it but he is legally entitled to use anything in it and add items or remove them and to add or remove trustees. Adding or removing a trustee can be done at any time with no notification of the ATF. Its the loophole from h3ll.

That is absolutely awesome.. this thread may have convinced me to eventually go class 3. Thanks for all the great answers!

 

[wired]

That is absolutely awesome.. this thread may have convinced me to eventually go class 3. Thanks for all the great answers!

Keep in mind that whatever trustee picks up the item from the dealer must fill out a 4473 just like if you were buying a rifle. Some say that the dealer has to do a NICS check on silencers but I have had one done for a silencer pickup. Form 1 requires nothing. If there are other trustees on the trust no 4473 is required for them. No fingerprints on a trust. No pictures, No background check. Just a valid trust, a citizenship form and $200 plus a form 1 or form 4.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Keep in mind that whatever trustee picks up the item from the dealer must fill out a 4473 just like if you were buying a rifle. Some say that the dealer has to do a NICS check on silencers but I have had one done for a silencer pickup. Form 1 requires nothing. If there are other trustees on the trust no 4473 is required for them. No fingerprints on a trust. No pictures, No background check. Just a valid trust, a citizenship form and $200 plus a form 1 or form 4.

Thanks again, great info!

 

[coctailer]

Keep in mind that whatever trustee picks up the item from the dealer must fill out a 4473 just like if you were buying a rifle. Some say that the dealer has to do a NICS check on silencers but I have had one done for a silencer pickup. Form 1 requires nothing. If there are other trustees on the trust no 4473 is required for them. No fingerprints on a trust. No pictures, No background check. Just a valid trust, a citizenship form and $200 plus a form 1 or form 4.

Ya, the trustee picking up the item must fill out a 4473, just like buying a gun.

The dealer is supposed to call in a NICS check on the trustee to make sure he is legally allowed to possess the item.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

One more quick question since I have the attention of you well informed gentlemen.. say a trust/individual were to purchase a M203 launcher, what is the availability of ammo types for it, and what is the tax stamp for each round, if any? I read this info several years ago but blew it off and promptly forgot it, as I was not interested at that time and didn't have the $$, anyway

 

[wired]

Ya, the trustee picking up the item must fill out a 4473, just like buying a gun.

The dealer is supposed to call in a NICS check on the trustee to make sure he is legally allowed to possess the item.

On most NFA items that true but the Brady Bill does not explicitly call for background checks on silencers. It does apply to all other NFA "frearms" but Silencers are not specified.



John Titsworth has a pretty good NFA tutorial up on PDF

http://www.silencerresearch.com/Silencerguide.pdf

This is only from his FAQ but its what Ive found to apply at every transfer Ive ever done...

"Your dealer will contact you: Your dealer will contact you
when your paperwork is cleared and only then can you go pick up
your silencer. You will be required to fill out an ATF Form 4473 (the
usual form when you buy a gun over the counter) when you pick up
your silencer. The NICS check is not required for NFA transfers."


The applicable code seems to be 18 U.S.C. section 922(t)(3)(B) concerning when the NCIS checks must be performed. As the transfer has been approved by the attorney general it is not REQUIRED to do a NICS check. Some dealers may want to CYA but a "requirement" and CYA are not the same thing.

(3) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to a firearm transfer between a licensee and another person if—
(A)
(i) such other person has presented to the licensee a permit that—
(I) allows such other person to possess or acquire a firearm; and
(II) was issued not more than 5 years earlier by the State in which the transfer is to take place; and
(ii) the law of the State provides that such a permit is to be issued only after an authorized government official has verified that the information available to such official does not indicate that possession of a firearm by such other person would be in violation of law;
(B) the Attorney General has approved the transfer under section 5812 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986


for lots of good reading....

<broken link removed>


And finally from James Bardwells vast repository...

http://www.titleii.com/bardwell/atf_letter65.txt

As you indicate, the transfer of a properly registered National
Firearms Act (NFA) weapon to a nonlicensee is exempt from the NICS
requirements per 18 U.S.C. section 922(t)(3)(B). Therefore, if a
transfer occurs involving an NFA firearm, such as a silencer, and
that NFA firearm is an integral part of the complete firearm, then
no NICS check is required. "Integral part" would mean permanently
attached or installed."


Of course there may be outstanding dealer directives instructing dealers to do NICS checks on trust silencer transfers but I have not been able to find any reference in the US code or ATF regs..

 

[wired]

One more quick question since I have the attention of you well informed gentlemen.. say a trust/individual were to purchase a M203 launcher, what is the availability of ammo types for it, and what is the tax stamp for each round, if any? I read this info several years ago but blew it off and promptly forgot it, as I was not interested at that time and didn't have the $$, anyway

Thats the problem with M203's. Manufacturers will not sell grenades to individuals. You can buy beehive .22 rounds, shot rounds, been bag rounds, chalk rounds, Maybe even tear gas but good luck finding actual grenades for it. If you did it would be $200 tax per unit by their own DD status.