WA divorce, "...missing..." guns

[Swedish K]

And if there is no sign of "breaking & entering" in the police report, they won't pay out a nickel. Whatever the firearms were in, be it an automobile, safe, the house, whatever, if there is no sign of forced entry, insurance won't pay a thing. Not NRA insurance, not any insurance. Over twenty years ago, I made the dumb mistake of leaving a couple hunting rifles in the "headache rack" in my pickup while I went into a friends house for a short visit. The truck was locked, and it was broad daylight in a decent neighborhood in Billings, MT. When I came out a half hour later, one of the rifles was missing and the drivers door was ajar. Someone had "slim jimmed" the lock. No money from insurance, and I'm still waiting for the miraculous call from some law enforcement agency that they found the rifle.

Unfortunately this does occur. I will say that the call from the cops can happen though. I know 2 people I worked with who recovered their stolen weapons. One had his car stolen and recovered a week later with his stashed 1911 missing from the hiding spot in the trunk. About 6 months later they recovered the gun and contacted him at work to let him know they were in possession and that it would be released back to him in approximately 2 weeks once sentencing was complete on the person who was caught with it. The other guy received a letter from Chicago PD of all places stating that they had recovered his pistol that had been stolen about 15 years earlier. I don't think he had even reported it stolen. They ended up shipping it to an FFL of his choosing to return it to him.

 

[kilimanjaro]

It's now the 15th, two full business days after original post, have you contacted police in this regard yet?

I don't mean to be negative, but being a nice guy and not reporting this will absolutely not change your marital situation. If you are harboring thoughts along those lines, they are foolish. Theft of firearms are serious felonies against society and need to be dealt with.

 

[Vanillagerrilla]

All my guns went to the bottom of the sea during my divorce.
Tragic...

 

[fredball]

I'd file a police report and let her kids take 10 year prison terms...

X2

 

[PiratePast40]

Your avatar says you live in Oregon, but you talk about Washington laws so it's hard to help. If Oregon, 941 still leaves us with the ability to give guns to family without BGC or FFL involvement. It's a bit of information to have, and use if you need it.

 

[JSJPDX]

Aside from the guns being missing, the question will be who do they legally belong to? If they were acquired after the marriage I believe they are community property in Oregon and Washington and she could legally dispose of a couple of them to her kids. Then you get into the whole was it done through a FFL, to whom, residing in what state, etc. If purchased before the marriage, not community property and then purely theft.
Sounds like a conversation is in order to ask if she knows what happened to the guns. If she denies any knowledge, report them stolen. If she admits taking them you have a whole different conversation.
If you haven't already done it, change the combination on your safe and then move it somewhere

 

[kilimanjaro]

Report them stolen. You cannot sell community property without permission of the spouse. If any were handguns, you cannot take them across a state line and give them to anyone.

If she admits taking or not taking them, it makes no difference. This is not 'community property', these are firearms.

 

[JSJPDX]

Report them stolen. You cannot sell community property without permission of the spouse. If any were handguns, you cannot take them across a state line and give them to anyone.

If she admits taking or not taking them, it makes no difference. This is not 'community property', these are firearms.

Not trying to be argumentative, but rather trying to learn something. Is there something in Washington or Oregon law that singles out firearms as some special class of property that is not considered community property within a marriage? If so, please sight the RCW or ORS so I can reconsider how I do my guns within my marriage.

 

[kilimanjaro]

Like I said, you can't sell community property without the consent of the other. The spouse taking them to another state is theft, pure and simple. It's not the car in her name, or the house, or the clock over the mantle, these are firearms. Take a firearm without consent, it's theft. Convert community property to your own ends, it's theft. There is no RCW needed. Most of us don't care about the wife's car, or selling the house, and we write off the antique clock. Divorces often deal with disposal of all these assets. The guns could be part of the divorce agreement, as well. But that's all a bit hard to do when they were removed from the house and taken to another state, isn't it?

That's what I was saying, not that guns are not community property, they certainly can be, but we don't know if they were purchased before or after marriage, or with whose funds. What we do know, is they are surreptitiously removed without the knowledge or consent of the other spouse and taken out of state. That is theft, no doubt about it. The wife could have keep them local and told her husband, 'You get your guns back when I get the car and the dogs', and that would be extortion.

 

[jbett98]

What it the firearms in question were placed in a gun trust.
The trust owns them right, so if the wife isn't in the gun trust, then it's certifiable theft?

 

[kilimanjaro]

If they were trust property and the wife was not a trustee, certainly, that would also be theft, just like in this instance.

Another thing, show us a background check and an FFL transfer from the spouse who purchased them to the spouse who just took them out of state. The person named on the 4473 is the owner.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Washington is a community property State where are debts and acquisitions after marriage are considered joint unless there is a pre-nup. The exception being inherited monies or property. Oregon is not community property. so if you filled out the 4473, it is yours.

 

[B5Ben]

@7SFCW4 IMO, you have everything to lose by not reporting them if they turn up at a crime scene. At least make the call and have the SN's ready.

Good luck and sorry to hear about the tribulations....

 

[AMT]

To 7SFCW4:

Do you have them? "No".

Where were they the last time you saw them? "Gun safe".

Any conclusion you think you can justify, you don't have them and the last place you saw them was your gun safe (or wherever you kept them). They are gone and you have no idea how they "left your possession". Assume stolen. You have a legal obligation to file a police report.

Contact the ex, and the kids, and let them know that if they don't show up within 24 hours EVERYTHING will be turned over to the police as stolen firearms. Names, addresses, phone numbers, anyone who had access to the safe, etc, etc, etc....

Whether the divorce is ugly or not, in your most polite voice and demeanor, simply explain that a felony occurred and if they are caught with stolen firearms that legal prosecution is out of your hands. Also explain how Cali. is NOT a gun friendly state and will go after the maximum. Also explain that the serial numbers will be entered into a database as stolen. They'll never be able to "skirt" the system.

 

[AMT]

Kilimanjaro:

Firearms may be arguable as "community property" in a divorce case. Who purchased the firearm and who's paperwork got approved?

Just sayin'

 

[kilimanjaro]

That's what I'm saying. It's arguable in a court. It's not arguable to a named owner on a 4473 when he opens his safe and finds them missing. The spouse is welcome to raise any community property claims she wants after she is charged and arrested for theft of firearms.

I would like to see a state judge that would rule that a firearm purchaser on a 4473 form was committing a felony when he said he was the true buyer because he really would only own one-half of the firearm. Not to mention the FFL dealer, who transferred one-half of a gun to the other spouse without any NICS check. If anyone involved in an NFA Trust has to comply with all the background check laws, so do spouses in community property states, if the other spouse buy a gun, according to the logic here.

There's a reason why none of the above is the case, today.

File the police report. Theft is theft.

 

[Joe13]

Not trying to be argumentative, but rather trying to learn something. Is there something in Washington or Oregon law that singles out firearms as some special class of property that is not considered community property within a marriage? If so, please sight the RCW or ORS so I can reconsider how I do my guns within my marriage.

Sounds like you may want to set up a prenumpt if your worried about your marriage...

 

[Mikej]

It might HELP if @7SFCW4 came back and clarified a few things, don't ya' think?

 

[Joe13]

It's now the 15th, two full business days after original post, have you contacted police in this regard yet?

I don't mean to be negative, but being a nice guy and not reporting this will absolutely not change your marital situation. If you are harboring thoughts along those lines, they are foolish. Theft of firearms are serious felonies against society and need to be dealt with.

^^^ this!

If you haven't done something by now then your either not interested in the input your getting or you don't agree with it.

 

[Joe13]

It might HELP if @7SFCW4 came back and clarified a few things, don't ya' think?

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