WA CPL Requirements

[ZigZagZeke]

I understand the OP's concerns, and I also understand Andy's concerns. What about a voluntary training class that if taken, reduces or eliminates any civil liability you may incur with your concealed carry actions in defense of yourself or others? This would be in line with other good samaritan laws that protect amateur first responders from civil liability for their actions in trying to save or help someone who is injured. This is something I would definitely push for if mandatory liability insurance were ever imposed on us. If you took the class you wouldn't be required to carry the insurance. Thoughts?

 

[etrain16]

Can i get a CPL but live in oregon?

WA CPL's are available to Oregon residents - I have one.

 

[Tony617]

This is absolutely false information. We can and do carry openly in Seattle often; it is by no means illegal. Additionally, there are no cities in WA where open carry is illegal; the State has full preemption.

I'm not sure where you got that information, but it is 100% wrong.

I have never opened carried in Seattle even though it is within your rights. Someone may may call the Seattle Police anyways and I do not want to deal the the hassle of speaking with SPD about why I opened carry in Seattle.

 

[Mainsail]

I have never opened carried in Seattle even though it is within your rights. Someone may may call the Seattle Police anyways and I do not want to deal the the hassle of speaking with SPD about why I opened carry in Seattle.

Why do you believe you would have to speak to the SPD?

It is unlawful for the police to detain you for engaging in a legal activity. Open carry is legal, so the police cannot demand you speak to them or demand ID - even if someone calls and tells them you're carrying openly. They can try to speak to you just the same as any other citizen, but you are free to walk away without uttering so much as a grunt.

There is no hassle.

 

[Sandaholic]

Why do you believe you would have to speak to the SPD?

It is unlawful for the police to detain you for engaging in a legal activity. Open carry is legal, so the police cannot demand you speak to them or demand ID - even if someone calls and tells them you're carrying openly. They can try to speak to you just the same as any other citizen, but you are free to walk away without uttering so much as a grunt.

There is no hassle.

Though I agree that you shouldn't be hassled if not breaking any laws. I don't think that what you've described would work very well in practice.

 

[2A-Jay]

I don't often open carry, and I refuse to go to Seattle for various other reasons that have nothing to do with firearms laws. If I were to go to Seattle I would carry concealed, I don't want to volunteer to be the first victim of a deranged shooter by advertising that I have a firearm on my side.

 

[Mainsail]

Though I agree that you shouldn't be hassled if not breaking any laws. I don't think that what you've described would work very well in practice.

I've done it three times with Tacoma PD, and others have with SPD. I've never had a problem in Seattle.

 

[DaveLikesGuns]

I have to agree with the majority of the people replying to the initial posting. I was pleasantly surprised when I got my WA CHL. I didn't mind taking a short course to get my Oregon CHL in the state where I live however my standpoint is thinking that law abiding-non felon-citizens should be able to carry a gun, concealed or openly with no hoops to jump through and frankly that the small fee I had to pay to WA and to OR could have been saved and or spent on something else I wanted or needed. The fee's and requirements which often cost money and time are in many ways discriminatory. The licensing process also takes longer dependent on the amount of expectations that your state has for you before you can have your "non infringed right." Seems like some states view it as more of a privilege to me. Makes me feel bad for the minimum wager, single mom walking home alone at night through a low income neighborhood that has police response times over 15 minutes. She should be able to make the one time purchase of a handgun and have no connected fees or hoops to Jump through in order to have and maintain her right to self defense. In the long run owning a gun is much cheaper than a cell phone and it doesn't take 15 minutes to show up.

The answer to Gun Safety is that the public schools should completely reverse there stance on Firearms. Yes, I am that person and I am saying it: Handgun, and rifle training with small/cheap caliber weapons in gym class. after the occasional shooting tutorial the kids will be separated into 2 groups. Disinterested young people who have shot and know how to safely handle guns and enthusiasts who want to further Their training. EASY!

I think that most of us here are extremely compliant people because we believe in the rule of law. Unfortunately the law makers like to take advantage of that.

 

[Diamondback]

The answer to Gun Safety is that the public schools should completely reverse there stance on Firearms. Yes, I am that person and I am saying it: Handgun, and rifle training with small/cheap caliber weapons in gym class. after the occasional shooting tutorial the kids will be separated into 2 groups. Disinterested young people who have shot and know how to safely handle guns and enthusiasts who want to further Their training. EASY!

Your ideas intrigue me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter... Actually, just said the same myself in reply to a blog-post by Mas Ayoob yesterday. (He's against mandatory training despite that it would mean more money for him.)

 

[Sandaholic]

I've done it three times with Tacoma PD, and others have with SPD. I've never had a problem in Seattle.

Can you clarify this for me? I'm not doubting you I just want to know the context or total picture of what went down.

I'm wondering:

1. Were these instances 'called in' or just 'happenstance' or do you know either way?
2. After an officer tried to speak with you, you or these other guys turned on your heel and walked off?



I guess I just would consider it rude to turn and walk away from an officer. I also wouldn't want to seem suspicious. You obviously are looking at this from a different angle than I am and I'm intrigued. Maybe I'm just like this........

I think that most of us here are extremely compliant people because we believe in the rule of law. Unfortunately the law makers like to take advantage of that.

I feel like I just don't want to get shot and if I see something as an even remotely escalating type of action.......or inaction, I'm not going to do it. Maybe this is just the difference between the open carry guys and those who prefer concealed? I carry concealed as often as I can, which is dang near all the time. And I'll open carry when hiking. I really just can't imagine open carrying in an SJW stronghold (or would weakhold fit better?).

If this is getting too far off topic feel free to PM me instead if you feel like sharing your experience.

Thanks

 

[BrokenTreaties]

According to two different people: a hunter and a former competitive shooter, police don't get as much range time as we would like to think they do and they cannot aim as nice as we would like them to. The same goes for some of us who carry concealed, some of us haven't even tried the Self Defense ammo we carry. Maybe it recoils horribly, maybe the ammo is older than 10 years. Is it reliable still? As a side note I find it apalling that we cannot buy Hornady Critical Duty rounds, in large amounts, at discount prices, like LEO can. We pay their salary! All of the distributors I've seen only do that for LEO, the rest of us have to buy 20 round boxes at a time.

 

[Mainsail]

1. Were these instances 'called in' or just 'happenstance' or do you know either way?
2. After an officer tried to speak with you, you or these other guys turned on your heel and walked off?

I used to live in the Stadium District in Tacoma, and openly carried there every day. I walked to Thriftway and Wright Park often, and rode my bike down through the Theater District to Pacific Ave. I also spent a lot of time in Proctor, in that shopping area.

I had an incident in the early days of open carry when I was down on the Ruston waterfront, in which I caved and gave up ID, gun, everything because I wasn't sure of the law. The officer told me that if he ever heard of me openly carrying again he would respond, even if he wasn't the one dispatched, and seize my pistol and then I would have to petition a judge to get it back. The TPD was made aware of this incident by one of the local gun-rights advocates, and the officer would later lie to his supervisor about having said that. That steeled my resolve to KNOW the laws about firearms carry and Terry stops, not just kinda-know.

Fast-forward a year or so, and I'm down on Pacific Ave coming up from the marina via the big staircase at the Museum of Glass. The museum security team called in a man-with-a-gun and that same officer stopped me, asking to see my CPL. I politely asked if I was being detained and he said 'no, but....'. This is often used by officer to keep you around so that to the complaining party sees them doing something even if they are too far away to tell what that something is. He told me he just wanted to check it for me (like he's doing me a favor) to make sure it wasn't going to expire. I reminded him I didn't need my CPL since I wasn't concealing. But he kept trying so I asked for about the third time if I was free to leave. His sergeant, standing nearby unnoticed by me, interrupted and told me I was free to leave, then called the officer over for what I assume was some counseling.

One incident occurred at Wright Park. The police were in the park after having been called about someone drinking in the park. I was on the second of three laps around the outside trail around the park on my mountain bike when I noticed four officers at the north end of the park near the trail. Either someone called the police, or someone in the park let them know directly. As I approached one of the officers stopped me and asked (nicely) to see my ID. I asked if I was being detained and he said no. I politely (and always be polite; they're police officers, not the enemy) wished him a good day and rode off.

Another incident occurred at Wright Park as well. In this case I was walking some laps after breakfast at the nearby Harvester restaurant. As I passed a certain woman I could hear her hissing angrily into her cell phone (paraphrasing) '...but he's carrying it right out in the open!' and other similar words. She had called the police but the dispatcher had finally started asking the right questions, so was telling her they were not going to send an officer since there were no laws being broken.

There is another as well, but due to the terms of the $ettlement agreement I am not allowed to discu$$.

Whether you carry openly or concealed, or even if you don't currently do either, it's in your best interest to know the laws about firearms, their carry, and the limits on the police in Terry rules. There is absolutely nothing wrong with or rude about not discussing lawful behavior with the police, and there are very good reasons not to.

 

[Sandaholic]

I used to live in the Stadium District in Tacoma, and openly carried there every day. I walked to Thriftway and Wright Park often, and rode my bike down through the Theater District to Pacific Ave. I also spent a lot of time in Proctor, in that shopping area.

I had an incident in the early days of open carry when I was down on the Ruston waterfront, in which I caved and gave up ID, gun, everything because I wasn't sure of the law. The officer told me that if he ever heard of me openly carrying again he would respond, even if he wasn't the one dispatched, and seize my pistol and then I would have to petition a judge to get it back. The TPD was made aware of this incident by one of the local gun-rights advocates, and the officer would later lie to his supervisor about having said that. That steeled my resolve to KNOW the laws about firearms carry and Terry stops, not just kinda-know.

Fast-forward a year or so, and I'm down on Pacific Ave coming up from the marina via the big staircase at the Museum of Glass. The museum security team called in a man-with-a-gun and that same officer stopped me, asking to see my CPL. I politely asked if I was being detained and he said 'no, but....'. This is often used by officer to keep you around so that to the complaining party sees them doing something even if they are too far away to tell what that something is. He told me he just wanted to check it for me (like he's doing me a favor) to make sure it wasn't going to expire. I reminded him I didn't need my CPL since I wasn't concealing. But he kept trying so I asked for about the third time if I was free to leave. His sergeant, standing nearby unnoticed by me, interrupted and told me I was free to leave, then called the officer over for what I assume was some counseling.

One incident occurred at Wright Park. The police were in the park after having been called about someone drinking in the park. I was on the second of three laps around the outside trail around the park on my mountain bike when I noticed four officers at the north end of the park near the trail. Either someone called the police, or someone in the park let them know directly. As I approached one of the officers stopped me and asked (nicely) to see my ID. I asked if I was being detained and he said no. I politely (and always be polite; they're police officers, not the enemy) wished him a good day and rode off.

Another incident occurred at Wright Park as well. In this case I was walking some laps after breakfast at the nearby Harvester restaurant. As I passed a certain woman I could hear her hissing angrily into her cell phone (paraphrasing) '...but he's carrying it right out in the open!' and other similar words. She had called the police but the dispatcher had finally started asking the right questions, so was telling her they were not going to send an officer since there were no laws being broken.

There is another as well, but due to the terms of the $ettlement agreement I am not allowed to discu$$.

Whether you carry openly or concealed, or even if you don't currently do either, it's in your best interest to know the laws about firearms, their carry, and the limits on the police in Terry rules. There is absolutely nothing wrong with or rude about not discussing lawful behavior with the police, and there are very good reasons not to.

Thanks.

 

[PaulB47]

 

[PaulB47]

I should add that I don't believe in constitutions (they don't do as advertised - restrain governments) and that I don't worry about people not being trained. There are lots of things worth worrying about that are far more probable than being shot by some moron, things I can actually do something about to improve my survival chances (such as getting exercise or eating well or driving more carefully). I don't believe in laws either.

The Law | Strike-The-Root: A Journal Of Liberty

If a cop gives me a bad time for carrying, I imagine asking him, "Do you think YOU should be required to ask permission from some bureaucrat, to defend your family?" Then wish him a good day and go about my business.

 

[dtrachsel]

I was particularly surprised when I applied for my WA CPL, that there was no requirement for Proof of Firearms Safety Training. All the Application consisted of was Declaration of Citizenship, Residence, and a similar questionnaire to a form 4473. In Oregon I had to provide either a certificate showing that I successfully completed a Firearms Safety/Concealed Weapons Course or provide a copy of my DD-214 indicating Weapons Training.

Why does not WA require the same? I may take some heat for this, but personally I would feel much better knowing that a person carrying a concealed weapon has at least had some firearms safety training, and not just qualified because he/she was able to answer the questions on the application properly. WHat say you?

Mods, if this is not the appropriate forum area for this please move it to where it may belong. Thanks

On the training issue, I believe it is up to every responsible person carrying a gun to learn how to properly and safely use it. Having any form of Government involved is problematic. That being said, mandated minimum training should be considered. (I recognize that driving is not a right but would hold that up as an example). In lieu of training we could just demonstrate a certain profiency in handling a weapon. I was surprised that in Oregon I did not have to provide any documentation of profiency to get a CHL.

 

[Diamondback]

From one of the wisest men I know:
MANDATORY FIREARMS TRAINING?

 

[dtrachsel]

From one of the wisest men I know:
MANDATORY FIREARMS TRAINING?

Yes, He is indeed one of the wisest. I have learned a lot from him. I do bow to his logic and understanding, but i have to cringe when i see how some handle a firearm just as i cringe at the way they drive. Nothing to do here!

 

[Diamondback]

IF there were to be a training requirement, I would counter with a mandate that the State provide it free of charge INCLUDING AMMO, and with a qualification requirement not higher than that of a police patrolman, maybe mandate that all PD's open their training/qual ranges to civilians on a Space A basis.

Yeah, I've seen some cringeworthy Bubbas too... on the other hand, it was fun back in college watching lady friends kick their a**es up one side of the line and down the other and make 'em take the Walk of Shame to go and bring back lunch for everybody...

 

[2A-Jay]

IF there were to be a training requirement, I would counter with a mandate that the State provide it free of charge INCLUDING AMMO, and with a qualification requirement not higher than that of a police patrolman, maybe mandate that all PD's open their training/qual ranges to civilians on a Space A basis.

Yeah, I've seen some cringeworthy Bubbas too... on the other hand, it was fun back in college watching lady friends kick their a**es up one side of the line and down the other and make 'em take the Walk of Shame to go and bring back lunch for everybody...

That sounds like a good idea to me, though I doubt that would go over too well with the Establishment folks.