Virginia and Proper Fitting of Body Armor

[UnionMillsNW]

Hey Folks,

Many of us followed the events in Virginia closely. Some of our fellow citizens that attended the rally chose to wear plate carriers to the event. That is their right. However I was shocked at the number of pictures I saw of citizens improperly wearing the plate carriers; most of them slung low and extending over the stomach. Some to such a degree that their practical protection was significantly compromised.

A plate carrier is simply a piece of safety equipment, like a condom. And if you wear either incorrectly you're gonna have a bad time adding to or subtracting from the population.

I was initially planning to write about my own experience using vests and plate carriers in the Marines (hint: wear it high) but found this helpful article that goes into good detail and rational

http://sixty-six.org/files/GUNFIGHTER_ANATOMY_proper_wear_of_armor.pdf

Wear the equipment correctly, practice your rights, and stay safe.

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[titsonritz]

I see this all the time, plates hanging way low and/or flopping around. I just shake my head. People really should educate them themselves on their "toys" and no just armor.

 

[gryghin]

Even though I was an EMT as collateral duty while in the Navy, I always had a first aid pack with me.

When I went to shore duty, my collateral duty was with Aux. Security Force. I made it mandatory for my platoon to have first aid packs and whenever i see pictures like these, I check load outs to see if these people have easily recognizable First Aid packs on them.

It's not that hard to put together and it may one day help someone.

 

[nwslopoke]

While the critical criticism may be correct, these people played their most important role standing up in mass numbers. If they were naked they still would have provided a better barrier to the task at hand than 100 lonely but properly outfitted protesters.

It's great to see individuals on this side of the fence standing up. The other side has zero problems telling their side regardless of optics. Give me Fat Freddy in a ridiculously set up Go to War gear but speaking truth to power.

 

[CamoDeafie]

These are Aussies, you can see whats a proper fit and whats not note, they are using 1996 era US issued Interim Small Arms Protective Overvests, that the US sent to the Aussies when Interceptor body armor became standard issue.Photos from East Timor about 2001ish. The first pic shows clearly improper fit on the back.

 

[CamoDeafie]

With soft armor, its fairly easy to get proper fit; but some cases as seen here with elastic shoulder straps and heavier plates pulling down... also; improper sized plates and carriers. I see many with L/XL carriers but fitted with M SAPI/10x12 standard steel plates that will hang low in oversized carriers. As an aside; Eagle Industries and other quality armor companies size their carriers to the armor plate intended, not to the human being wearing it
USMC MARSOC wearing properly fitted


Iraqis wearing elastic strapped carriers, some not fitted well


Special Operations? Hangs low

Contractors wearing concealable vests, note plate outline on white shirt guy and how low it hangs relative to sternum area

Parajumper wearing a smaller plate carrier sized for the plate and fitted properly

SFG guys wearing Eagle rigs; both have their carriers hanging way too low, green shirted guy is an extreme example; possibly because both guys are toting 12 M4 magazines plus radios plus pistols and pistol mags and other gear, unbalancing the rigs (can see the back panel is right on his nape on green shirt)

 

[UnionMillsNW]

When I went to shore duty, my collateral duty was with Aux. Security Force. I made it mandatory for my platoon to have first aid packs and whenever i see pictures like these, I check load outs to see if these people have easily recognizable First Aid packs on them.

It's not that hard to put together and it may one day help someone.

Good point. Medkits are often overlooked. Even just carrying a tourniquet can make the difference.

View attachment 652610
SFG guys wearing Eagle rigs; both have their carriers hanging way too low, green shirted guy is an extreme example; possibly because both guys are toting 12 M4 magazines plus radios plus pistols and pistol mags and other gear, unbalancing the rigs (can see the back panel is right on his nape on green shirt)

This is were having a battle belt makes a huge difference. Taking some of that weight off the front of the carrier allows for a proper fit.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Having had to wear helmets and armor ..
I found it hot , heavy , bulky , uncomfortable and very difficult to camouflage and break the "hard / solid" outlines of...
Many times in our LRRP / LRSD teams we would go out with all that crap...then cache it ....conduct our mission and retrieve on our way back to friendly lines.
So admittedly I am speaking from a bias here.

But...
If you choose to wear helmets armor and whatnot...
Wear it properly and maintain it correctly....otherwise it is a useless piece of heavy , uncomfortable and expensive gear that does you no good.
Andy

 

[Stomper]

Having had to wear helmets and armor ..
I found it hot , heavy , bulky , uncomfortable and very difficult to camouflage and break the "hard / solid" outlines of...
Many times in our LRRP / LRSD teams we would go out with all that crap...then cache it ....conduct our mission and retrieve on our way back to friendly lines.
So admittedly I am speaking from a bias here.

But...
If you choose to wear helmets armor and whatnot...
Wear it properly and maintain it correctly....otherwise it is a useless piece of heavy , uncomfortable and expensive gear that does you no good.
Andy

I was always amused by the dudes who wore a K-pot that was too small for their melons...

 

[User 1234]

Everyone wears their vest low to protect the stomach, because that's where the bacon goes.

Seriously though, this is a good thread with useful points.

 

[11Charlie]

I was always amused by the dudes who wore a K-pot that was too small for their melons...

Or to big and its falling down over there eyes and they can't see chit!! Those guys usually didn't last to long.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Having had to wear helmets and armor ..
I found it hot , heavy , bulky , uncomfortable and very difficult to camouflage and break the "hard / solid" outlines of...
Many times in our LRRP / LRSD teams we would go out with all that crap...then cache it ....conduct our mission and retrieve on our way back to friendly lines.
So admittedly I am speaking from a bias here.

But...
If you choose to wear helmets armor and whatnot...
Wear it properly and maintain it correctly....otherwise it is a useless piece of heavy , uncomfortable and expensive gear that does you no good.
Andy

The ceramics available today are usually lighter than what was available back in the 1980s-1990s; at least from what weights I could find.
Granted not that much for Level IV types but for Level III there are weights rangin from 4lbs each to 9lbs depending on size and materials (10x12 is standard, from the new plastics to steel).

But I have noticed a disturbing trend of some "lightweight" armor having essentially 8x10 area of hard ceramics while inset into foam to make up to 10x12

 

[MannyGlocks]

Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, (1967) we had helmet liners on top of which we wore a steel helmet.

But one of our guys had a noggin so large he could wear only the steel pot.

It looked comical as all hell.

The guy was embarrassed about it, but no one teased him as he was the size of a small house...

 

[mkwerx]

Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, (1967) we had helmet liners on top of which we wore a steel helmet.

But one of our guys had a noggin so large he could wear only the steel pot.

It looked comical as all hell.

The guy was embarrassed about it, but no one teased him as he was the size of a small house...

Was his issue rifle an M60?

 

[Geardo]

My only problem is choking on the plate in odd positions.

 

[MannyGlocks]

MKW,

Nope, too dumb...he was better at carrying base plates for 81 mm mortars.

 

[Stomper]

Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, (1967) we had helmet liners on top of which we wore a steel helmet.

But one of our guys had a noggin so large he could wear only the steel pot.

It looked comical as all hell.

The guy was embarrassed about it, but no one teased him as he was the size of a small house...

My first few years in was steel pots, and the old OD green flak-vest before the new "wonder" Kevlar came into the inventory.

Was his issue rifle an M60?

WHOA junior.... I was a M60 gunner once!

 

[CamoDeafie]

My only problem is choking on the plate in odd positions.

For that reason, my opinion is that a plate carrier ought to be able to attach to a belt, which can lock the carrier down, preventing upward movement... similar to this


On the other hand, this is also why an elastic cummerbund works pretty well on soft carriers; they lock the carrier down. Its also why some police concealable vests had groin/butt flaps to tuck into pants.

 

[Geardo]

For that reason, my opinion is that a plate carrier ought to be able to attach to a belt, which can lock the carrier down, preventing upward movement... similar to this View attachment 652709


On the other hand, this is also why an elastic cummerbund works pretty well on soft carriers; they lock the carrier down. Its also why some police concealable vests had groin/butt flaps to tuck into pants.

That is an interesting setup. My problem is just a super long torso, probably wouldn't work well for me.

If anything I am noticing my rear plate is too low.

 

[CamoDeafie]

That is an interesting setup. My problem is just a super long torso, probably wouldn't work well for me.

If anything I am noticing my rear plate is too low.

View attachment 652714

The front is properly placed on your torso, but the back is too low? Sounds like you need 2 different sized plates; something most companies don't do Its also something of an issue in using carriers with cummerbunds; since they set the relative heights of the plate bags; something like this can and apparently does happen. This is another reason the Plate Carrier/removable chest rig panel system is being used by the Army and the Marines; the chest rig panel doesnt set the plate height; although the carrier's side straps or cummerbund does. Hm. Looking at the Interceptor type and the older Ranger body armor, as well as the SPEAR BALCS carriers; I see that they have fixed shoulder sections; and simple straps or elastic side bands...