Video: Why Ballistics Gel Works and Caliber Arguments are Dumb

[L84Cabo]

Great video by Lucky Gunner capturing their discussion with two ammo experts on their recent tour of Federal Ammo factory.

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[ATCclears]

From the vid:

Don't get hung up on velocity.

Don't get hung up on caliber. Be able to shoot the gun well and deliver accurate fire quickly.

Have a reliable gun.

 

[The Heretic]

I don't care, for the most part, what the projectile does to the gel, I care what the gel does to the projectile - i.e., does the projectile expand? Does the projectile penetrate a sufficient distance?

Gel is not a perfect tissue simulator, but it is something you can use to compare one projectile to another.

Mostly I look at the results to see if the projectile expanded - there is so much cheap "soft point" or "hollow point" ammo coming from overseas that acts like FMJ or solids, that one really has to test them in gel to know whether they are actually worth shooting, much less buying. I bought some S&B (IIRC - or maybe it was Herters?) "soft point" 7.62x39 only to get home and find out that it had either a steel core or a steel jacket - neither of which would expand.

 

[bbbass]

From the vid:

Don't get hung up on velocity.

Don't get hung up on caliber. Be able to shoot the gun well and deliver accurate fire quickly.

Have a reliable gun.

And that should be all there is to say about it!

There are so many variables that claiming what is the best caliber, or best bullet, is like saying what the best scope is for hunting, or who the best sports writer is, or even who the best politician is...

 

[turq]

I have some S&B 124 SP. soft point lead shaped like their fmj.
I would like to know just how much it expands if at all.

 

[The Heretic]

I really get a kick out of people claiming the .45 ACP is better than 9mm because of the diameter of the bullet is larger by 0.097" - i.e., a difference of 22% ignoring the fact that the mass of a 230 grain bullet is double that of a 115 grain bullet.

Even better when arguing the .357 magnum 125 gr. is a proven killer at 1200 fps, while the 9mm (.355") 124 gr. is a "mouse gun" at 1200 fps.

 

[The Heretic]

I have some S&B 124 SP. soft point lead shaped like their fmj.
I would like to know just how much it expands if at all.

Try a magnet on the bullet. If it is steel core or steel jacket, it is unlikely to expand.

 

[Boboclown]

I use gel because hairspray isn't good enough.

Try a magnet on the bullet. If it is steel core or steel jacket, it is unlikely to expand.

Mild steel jackets still expand if its soft point. The issue is consisent expansion, since the ammo that uses mild steel jackets don't have the best consistency for velocity (well, some might be more consistent).

 

[The Heretic]

I use gel because hairspray isn't good enough.


Mild steel jackets still expand if its soft point. The issue is consisent expansion, since the ammo that uses mild steel jackets don't have the best consistency for velocity (well, some might be more consistent).

From the tests online, it seems you can get one box of ammo coming from eastern europe that expands somewhat, and then another box that doesn't expand at all. I just don't trust it because I don't have the time and $$$ to test every batch of ammo I buy. I consider that most of the same US manufacture of a given type of self-defense ammo will act pretty much the same as another batch of the same ammo brand and projectile type.

 

[P7M13]

I really get a kick out of people claiming the .45 ACP is better than 9mm because of the diameter of the bullet is larger by 0.097" - i.e., a difference of 22% ignoring the fact that the mass of a 230 grain bullet is double that of a 115 grain bullet.

Even better when arguing the .357 magnum 125 gr. is a proven killer at 1200 fps, while the 9mm (.355") 124 gr. is a "mouse gun" at 1200 fps.

Hyperbole sells, and people find safety and comfort in their ignorance, convinced they're right.

 

[Boboclown]

From the tests online, it seems you can get one box of ammo coming from eastern europe that expands somewhat, and then another box that doesn't expand at all. I just don't trust it because I don't have the time and $$$ to test every batch of ammo I buy. I consider that most of the same US manufacture of a given type of self-defense ammo will act pretty much the same as another batch of the same ammo brand and projectile type.

They don't get very consistent velocities. CAI imported ammo is the most inconsistent. My problem with US ammo is their primers are a little soft.

 

[The Heretic]

They don't get very consistent velocities. CAI imported ammo is the most inconsistent. My problem with US ammo is their primers are a little soft.

Not had any problems with pierced primers or slam fire, even with Chinese rifles, so I would rather have a primer that is maybe soft than one that won't touch off the first time because it is too hard.

 

[Boboclown]

Not had any problems with pierced primers or slam fire, even with Chinese rifles, so I would rather have a primer that is maybe soft than one that won't touch off the first time because it is too hard.

Aside from the overhyped gold tiger (I think that's the one), I never had issues with a primer being too hard. But IICR some US ammo had primers soft enough for slamfires, don't remember which brand.

So I stick to steel, or reloads with decent primers.

 

[cigars]

I don't want to get shot with anything, unless it's absolutely necessary.

 

[cigars]

Excellent video, highly credible experts. Definitely puts the "what's the best caliber" thing to rest.
Thanks for posting that

 

[powermad]

It isn't so much which caliber is better.
It's deciding on which one to stick in your pants that day.
Doesn't matter what I take, I just bring a spare mag along for the ride.
Not because I plan on an OK Corral shootout but just in case of a mag related failure.

 

[MannyGlocks]

I prefer 'indirect fire' thank you very much!

 

[pharmseller]

Ballistic gel is a waste of time.

I use shoulder shots on goats. Big, mean he-goats. It tells me all I need to know about bullet performance. I take detailed 8"x10" color glossy photos and hand them out to would-be attackers, explaining what is likely to happen to them should they continue their present course of aggression, by means of establishing a dialog.

So far, post glossy pic viewing, no bad guy has chosen to complete said bad act. So I got that going for me, which is nice.



P

 

[Certaindeaf]

I like hollow points but they sure are stuck on a magic depth window.
I wouldn't feel undergunned using lead SWC's even though they usually penetrate a yard or two in game.