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Generally, by obtaining a search warrant for your computer and phone, which they will do anyway to determine if you actually have a connection with the dead guy.
Interesting. I thought that was an issue with apple phones. That they couldn’t get them open, then on the computer front, you’d have to have one first, right?
 
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Interesting. I thought that was an issue with apple phones. That they couldn’t get them open, then on the computer front, you’d have to have one first, right?
They can't get them open without the pass key, which you would be have to provide or spend the time until you do in jail for contempt of the court signed search warrant.
 
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They can't get them open without the pass key, which you would be have to provide or spend the time until you do in jail for contempt of the court signed search warrant.
Ha! Nope - can’t be forced to be a witness against yourself. No duty to supply evidence to the court that could be used against you.
 
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Ha! Nope - can’t be forced to be a witness against yourself. No duty to supply evidence to the court that could be used against you.
That isn't being a witness against yourself anymore than blocking a search of your house is. It is interference with an investigation or evidence tampering.
 
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That isn't being a witness against yourself anymore than blocking a search of your house is. It is interference with an investigation or evidence tampering.
It totally is and you should know that. Giving up your password to your phone would violate my rights under the 5th amendment as I would be being forced (if I gave it up) to provide evidence/testimony that would be used against me in court.

Blocking access to my house is completely different because for them to gain access I must divulge nothing.

“We need evidence against you, open something for us” - nope, not required, you just can’t try to stop them from opening it themselves so some people willingly open things like houses because they can legally break down the door otherwise.
 
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It totally is and you should know that. Giving up your password to your phone would violate my rights under the 5th amendment as I would be being forced (if I gave it up) to provide evidence/testimony that would be used against me in court.

Blocking access to my house is completely different because for them to gain access I must divulge nothing.

“We need evidence against you, open something for us” - nope, not required, you just can’t try to stop them from opening it themselves so some people willingly open things like houses because they can legally break down the door otherwise.
While there has been different court ruling on this, SCOTUS has allowed it. Search warrants force you to unlock your phone, your computer full of kiddie porn, your safe, etc.

 
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While there has been different court ruling on this, SCOTUS has allowed it. Search warrants force you to unlock your phone, your computer full of kiddie porn, your safe, etc.

That’s interesting, yep, wouldn’t comply. That would be me supplying evidence against myself and I can’t be forced to do that. I’d say they got that one wrong in the courts.

Not to mention, there are laws on how long they can hold you related to potential crimes they suspect you may have committed, so while sure, they might pressure someone by having them in jail, legally, they can’t hold someone past a certain amount of time if charges haven’t been filed. And if you don’t supply evidence against yourself that would allow them to actually try to make a case against you. Worst they can say is “contempt of court.” Which is most cases is nothing compared to what they might be pursuing charges for.
 
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I think we are all substantially agreeing on the point that we should act and live our lives as CHL holders that give us the best chance of both survival and avoiding prison by doing the "right thing." How we decide to get there may vary. If someone has baggage on social media or elsewhere and/or truly is not a good person, just like other places in life, this could either influence whether to charge by the prosecutor or convict by a jury. False bravado and stupid comments on social media (or to people) could fall into this (they tried it with Kyle but failed).

I like to engage in these conversations with folks that I don't share the same opinion / perspective because this is a good way to expand horizons and learn from differing views. That is the great strength of NWF. Appreciate the conversation.
 
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Oh, you must have assumed my general comment that you were’t quoted in was directed at you…

Wait, stop, come back…
I actually read all of you guy's responses to each other and I agree with your viewpoint.

I don't go out looking for a fight or wake up feeling like putting a bullet someone, but if someone did something to warrant me pulling out my gun and shooting them, I would only call for help. Sure there are a thousand technicalities, but I'm not going to force myself to do something just cause "technically" this could happen.
 
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I actually read all of you guy's responses to each other and I agree with your viewpoint.

I don't go out looking for a fight or wake up feeling like putting a bullet someone, but if someone did something to warrant me pulling out my gun and shooting them, I would only call for help. Sure there are a thousand technicalities, but I'm not going to force myself to do something just cause "technically" this could happen.
Thanks for sharing. Ultimately it all boils down to opinions, and those are like buttholes, everyone has one (except for those unlucky people who don’t)

I just know that personally if I experience a deadly threat encounter that I felt required me to defend myself using deadly force. I will not feel compelled to provide medical care for someone who moments earlier was a deadly threat to me and possibly still would be if I got that close to them. Other people can respond to that situation however they feel inclined.
 
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Thanks for sharing. Ultimately it all boils down to opinions, and those are like buttholes, everyone has one (except for those unlucky people who don’t)

I just know that personally if I experience a deadly threat encounter that I felt required me to defend myself using deadly force. I will not feel compelled to provide medical care for someone who moments earlier was a deadly threat to me and possibly still would be if I got that close to them. Other people can respond to that situation however they feel inclined.
Yes exactly! There is no right or wrong response.

In the heat of the moment, if you can still muster up your inner Mother Teresa, then good for you.

But I know for sure I'd be filled with rage, adrenaline, anger, all emotions which would not be good at rendering any aid.

I've seen ASP videos where some people actually kept shooting even after the perp was down. I remember distinctly this one road rage video where the defender was stabbing this dude until he dropped dead on the spot. Now these are the cases where I'd say it was wayyy past the point of simply ending the threat, and getting into punishment territory.

To me, rendering aid isn't as important as knowing when enough is enough.
 
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Yes exactly! There is no right or wrong response.

In the heat of the moment, if you can still muster up your inner Mother Teresa, then good for you.

But I know for sure I'd be filled with rage, adrenaline, anger, all emotions which would not be good at rendering any aid.

I've seen ASP videos where some people actually kept shooting even after the perp was down. I remember distinctly this one road rage video where the defender was stabbing this dude until he dropped dead on the spot. Now these are the cases where I'd say it was wayyy past the point of simply ending the threat, and getting into punishment territory.

To me, rendering aid isn't as important as knowing when enough is enough.
Attempts to apply tourniquet, puts it around the neck…
 

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