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Video: What happens when Guns are banned in Australia

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Vantage, Aug 11, 2012.

  1. Vantage

    Vantage Pacific Standard Time Active Member

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  2. Grunwald

    Grunwald Out of that nut job colony of Seattle, WA Well-Known Member

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    Not a problem for me - I don't have any firearms anymore. I loaned them to this guy Eric who said he needed them for a secret government mission, and then later gave me some lame excuse about losing them during a fishing trip down in Mexico.
  3. DCKilla

    DCKilla Wet Side, WA Member

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    Small world, you know Eric too.
    ZA_Survivalist likes this.
  4. MarkAd

    MarkAd Port Orchard Well-Known Member

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    Bob's your uncle
  5. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    Funny timing this thread. I just happen to be near Melbourne Australia this very moment, and for the last couple of evenings on the news they have been talking about a drive-by shooting with four shots fired into the front of a house in Sydney, a road-rage shooting that injured a couple driving in a truck, and another shooting of a male who took one or two to the mid-section... then this morning we watched an ametuer video of four tarts in a knife-fight in a downtown area....

    I then said to all the Aussie family sitting around in an exageratted "suprised-shocked" manner.... *GASP* how could all this happen?! The ownership of firearms is so severely restricted, and the carrying of ANY type of blade is prohibited! They got my message... banning weapons only disarms the law abiding, and provides a target rich environment for criminals.
  6. chemist

    chemist Beaverton OR Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for this video link.

    The statistics are complicated enough that people on both sides of the argument can use them to their own ends.
    snopes.com: Australian Guns Stats
    As far as the trends themselves, what I've found is that violent crime rates did indeed increase for a few years after the ban, but they've trended back down for the past decade, and now they're lower than they were in the Nineties. But the Ozzie population is aging too, just like here in the US, and that's as likely a cause as any for the larger-scale trends.

    Please understand: I'm on your side. But in a country that had very little private ownership of firearms to begin with, a ban probably couldn't have had that much of an effect as far as emboldening criminals. Plus, we have to superimpose that ban on steadily declining police budgets and the other macro trends, like drug crime. You know, they never had a crack or meth epidemic to deal with Down Under.

    So the message is, be cautious when you take these cherry-picked stats at face value, because the opposition's position is not so obviously wrong, at least in terms of all available stats from Australia. The one thing that I think we should all agree is that the ban didn't help significantly, statistically speaking. There's too much noise for me to conclude that it obviously hurt.

    None of that makes a whit of difference to me here in the US. I will vigorously defend myself, my loved ones, my neighbors, and perhaps even innocent strangers from violent criminals.
  7. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    I don't think you're wrong in "taking it with a grain of salt" when it comes to Australian firearms stats... however australia has had just as many problems with meth, cocaine and all the drugs we deal with here in the US. The major difference: radically lower population density. As it turns out, it's hard to create a concrete drug dealing ghetto when all you have are suburbs or rural farms.

    But you're right... demography will give context to the other stats.

    The one thing I really havn't been able to get my head around though, it seems many of the commonwealth countries have a tolerance for hooliganism and youth violence that just baffles me.
  8. chemist

    chemist Beaverton OR Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it really shocked me hearing a Canadian woman interviewed about problems in her neighborhood. She lived alone, and said that the only thing that bothered her was when teenagers broke into her house and vandalized it while she slept upstairs.

    Call me a crazy, bloodthirsty American, but I wouldn't hold still for one second while this was going on in my home. I guess my culture isn't civilized enough to see that these "kids" just need a fun outlet for all their energy, and my home and belongings are their rightful playthings.
  9. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    After watching all the london riots this year... where a bunch of yuppie kids were going around organizing on twitter deciding which gap store to rob and when then waiting for everyone to show up, I really had to start to wonder wtf is going on in britain. And events like this are not unheard of elsewhere; including canada and australia.

    Perhaps if all these kids had a constructive release for those impulses like a competitive shooting program, they wouldn't have time between schoolwork and going to competitions to engage in this kind of criminal behavior. When I was trying to get onto the olympic team way back when, I know I barely had time for a girlfriend much less time to go loot a store.
  10. Misterbill

    Misterbill Yakima County, Washington New Member

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    The attempts by some on our side to draw parallels between the U.S., UK and Australia are a little disingenuous.

    First and foremost, a Parliamentary Democracy bears little resemblance to our Federalist Republican form of government.

    Secondly, in both of the countries used for these examples, civil rights have NEVER been upheld against government desires, unlike the repeated push-backs by our courts against all kinds of government intrusions.

    It's just an apples and oranges comparison. Gun confiscation is literally the LAST worry I have in regard to my gun rights. De-facto bans via licensing, taxes, ammo restrictions and limits on purchases are real threats.

    Gun confiscation is NOT going to happen. If for no other reason than that pesky 5th amendment would make it cost a few hundred billion + just to pay people for the guns.
  11. AlphaCoyote

    AlphaCoyote Oh, I get around. New Member

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    If the Aussie cops flush a gun down the toilet, does it spin in the other direction? If you fire it while it's spinning in the opposite direction, will the twist of the rifling be affected?
  12. Morpheus

    Morpheus Columbia Gorge Anyway, back on the farm.

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    Not to burst anyone's bubble, but this video is at least 10 years old and was made by the NRA.

    Now, it doesn't alter the message but it isn't a new video.
  13. erudne

    erudne The Pie Matrix PPL Say Sleeping W/Your Rifle Is A bad Thing? Bronze Supporter

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    Currently Aussies are beginning to feel like their gun free utopia may well have been the worst mistake in decades, if not generations and are beginning to say so

    The period for the hajj doesn’t start until October 2, but maybe he was going early. In any case, when a massive jihad terror plot is uncovered and 600 police are deployed for counter-terror raids in two cities, it is completely justifiable for Australian authorities to detain this imam if they had reasonable suspicion about his activities. It is also completely unsurprising that Muslim leaders would be complaining about unjust treatment rather than reaffirming their commitment to and cooperation with counter-terror efforts.
    “Muslim leaders angry at treatment of Imam,” Sky News, September 19, 2014 (thanks to Kenneth):
    Muslim leaders are fuming at what they claim is the unacceptable treatment of a senior cleric by officials at Sydney airport.
    The imam was detained on Thursday for two and a half hours by Customs officials for a routine baggage search at Sydney International Airport, which caused him to miss his flight.
    He was on his way to Mecca in Saudi Arabia to perform the Hajj, and was travelling with a group of Australian pilgrims.
    The manner in which the detention occurred was extremely unprofessional said the Grand Mufti of Australia, Dr Ibrahim Abu Mohammad, and leaders of a number of Muslim community organisations.
    ‘It is totally unacceptable for any Australian citizen let alone a senior member of ANIC (Australian National Imams Council) to be subjected to this seemingly random yet profiled manner causing severe stress and unwanted inconvenience,’ said Dr Ibrahim Abu Mohammad in a statement on Friday.
    The incident exposes severe shortcomings with the process in place at Sydney’s airport, they say.
    After ASIO increased Australia’s security threat level to high last week, the government said passengers would encounter delays at airports.
    Comment was being sought from Sydney Airport.
    Muslim leaders have called for calm after Thursday’s counter-terrorism raids in Sydney and Brisbane which resulted in four people being charged.
    One of the four, Omarjan Azari, 22, of Guildford, is accused of plotting to behead a member of the public in Sydney.
    They want to ‘reassure all Australians that they have nothing to fear from their Muslim neighbours who want peace and security for everyone regardless of religion’.
    ‘We have a vested interest in the safety and security of Australia,’ Dr Mohammad said in Friday’s statement.
    The leaders noted a dramatic increase of abuse and discrimination against Muslim Australians in recent weeks, and said a Facebook page had been set up in response.
    ‘We call on anyone who may have suffered a hate or bias motivated crime to call and contact the nearest police station and to report it using a special Facebook page that has been set up to register these incidents,’ the statement said.
    An increase in abuse is a concern from all sides of the issue, with a Catholic nun at a Maronite school in Sydney’s west threatened this week by a group waving an Islamic State flag reportedly yelling they would ‘slaughter the Christians.’
    The grand mufti said politicians and the media must not use the raids to inflame hatred of certain segments of the community.
    Prime Minister Tony Abbott also called for tolerance.
    Aussies ain't buying this, the manufacture of black market machineguns has increased in OZ
  14. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Tell that to people in Connecticut or for that matter California.

    It isn't going to do you any good to fight confiscation in court if the government already has your guns and they have arrested you for having guns you shouldn't have, and any other charges they can pile on top of that, including the catch-all "resisting arrest".

    The Supreme Court has already held that eminent domain can be used for all kinds of things, including the benefit of a private company as long as it also benefits the wider community. If they can take your house to build a sports stadium or an office building, they can surely take your guns to "prevent crime".

    The key here, IMO, is plausible deniability, and preventing the government from knowing just what firearms you have, or even better, knowing that you have them at all. When de facto registration laws pass, like I-594, then the only way you can keep your guns off the books is to never buy or sell them.

    In states like California or Connecticut where they have outright registration, it is even harder.

    Never say never.