Video of Wenatchee 7 eleven clerk assault, takeaway lessons

[ilikegunspdx]

Just looking at this guy's potential responses. Shouldn't there be an option between verbal engagement and physical engagement? Namely holding the assailant at distance with a gun? It's more than verbal and less than physical engagement.

 

[Pandaz3]

Just because you have not seen a weapon does not mean he does not have one. If it's my perception from my eye level in one real time sequence that there is a real threat, then that is what I have to deal with. I do not have to catalog and identify the weapon.

 

[No_Regerts]

Just looking at this guy's potential responses. Shouldn't there be an option between verbal engagement and physical engagement? Namely holding the assailant at distance with a gun? It's more than verbal and less than physical engagement.

View attachment 617749

Depends. Punching a guy is Assault 4th degree, a misdemeanor m. Pointing a gun is Assault 1, a felony and strike-able offense.

Verbal commands, escort by force, counter joints, pepper spray, stun guns, strikes/kicks, impact weapons, in that order based on the level of resistance, all would be considered more reasonable than pointing a gun or knife at someone absent a deadly threat.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Depends. Punching a guy is Assault 4th degree, a misdemeanor m. Pointing a gun is Assault 1, a felony and strike-able offense.

Verbal commands, escort by force, counter joints, pepper spray, stun guns, strikes/kicks, impact weapons, in that order based on the level of resistance, all would be considered more reasonable than pointing a gun or knife at someone absent a deadly threat.

I guess I'm thinking like in that Wenatchee video. Looks like there was a verbal confrontation before good guy pulled his gun then guy pointed his gun at assailant. That wouldn't be a felony for the good guy would it?

 

[No_Regerts]

I guess I'm thinking like in that Wenatchee video. Looks like there was a verbal confrontation before good guy pulled his gun then guy pointed his gun at assailant. That wouldn't be a felony for the good guy would it?

When he presented the weapon, it appeared bad dude might be trying to get into the truck. Presentation when someone is trying to get into your vehicle is A-Ok.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

When he presented the weapon, it appeared bad dude might be trying to get into the truck. Presentation when someone is trying to get into your vehicle is A-Ok.

I always assumed that irresponsibly or threateningly pointing a gun at soemeone (in OR anyway) is "menacing" while pointing a gun at someone like a mugger or someone charging you to cause u bodily harm (without a visible weapon) is self defense. But I may be wrong about that as I'm no lawyer just what I understand from what I've read of OR law.

 

[No_Regerts]

I always assumed that irresponsibly or threateningly pointing a gun at soemeone (in OR anyway) is "menacing" while pointing a gun at someone like a mugger or someone charging you to cause u bodily harm (without a visible weapon) is self defense. But I may be wrong about that as I'm no lawyer just what I understand from what I've read of OR law.

In WA, there is a list of crimes where if you defend yourself, you can't be found in legal jeopardy. It doesn't define what force is appropriate. It would be up to the investigators and prosecutor to determine if the force was reasonable.

Robbery 1 in WA involves physical harm and/or weapons. You could probably justify using deadly force or at least putting the boots to the guy. Robbery 2 is theft off the person, like a bag snatch. Might not get away with shooting him, but a knee to the teeth while struggling for your tactical man satchel would be reasonable.

 

[Xaevian]

Moments of indecision or hesitation can result in increased risk of physical injury. While the defender may have made some tactically bad errors of judgment, i.e. handing over his weapon, lack of commitment or hesitation wasn't one of them.

 

[No_Regerts]

Moments of indecision or hesitation can result in increased risk of physical injury. While the defender may have made some tactically bad errors of judgment, i.e. handing over his weapon, lack of commitment or hesitation wasn't one of them.

Thats true. He definitely won the OODA loop battle.

 

[awshoot]

Just looking at this guy's potential responses. Shouldn't there be an option between verbal engagement and physical engagement? Namely holding the assailant at distance with a gun? It's more than verbal and less than physical engagement.

View attachment 617749

I would put that after physical and before lethal -- physical engagement can be putting a hand on the guy's shoulder and saying "knock it off" which legally speaking, is way down from pulling a gun on someone.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I would put that after physical and before lethal -- physical engagement can be putting a hand on the guy's shoulder and saying "knock it off" which legally speaking, is way down from pulling a gun on someone.

Yea I guess it's all situation dependent as far as physical. One scenario I thought of is that guy with gun (GWG) in Florida who shot a guy who pushed him and GWG was convicted of manslaughter after initially not being charged with anything.

The other guy pushed GWG (made it physical) then GWG drew his gun and the other guy backed off. At that point he had stopped the "attack" ("attack" was a shove, no weapons and no punches). But GWG went ahead and shot and killed the other guy. So GWG stopped the physical part but then went to lethal force. He could have de-escalated things as soon as the guy backed off such as simply walking away with gun in hand.