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"So now according to the advice given to me by my attorney I'm invoking my right to remain silent. Ok? So I have nothing else further to say to you guys... to you gentlemen."

(2 seconds later...)

"So are we just going to sit here and stare at each other or what?"

I thought you were going to remain silent! I hate it when people go back on their word. ;) ;)

Greg

I thought that was a little funny too. Guy couldn't keep quiet. :s0114:
 
to me it just shows how california and other states should just alow concealed carry so they dont have to waste there time dealing with someone trying to prove a point after all the criminal is not going to be pulling off protests like this or carrying unloaded with a video camera
 
not waste the time of our tax payer funded law enforcement officers who have better things to do.

A few points.

The law on the books to "lawfully check" a firearm to make sure its unloaded does actually violate part of your rights. I believe its written in the constitution as well, that laws that violate it, are null and void. That is a fight for the court systems however, nothing really the LEO needs to concern himself with.

While it is not the officers job to be an interpretor of the laws, it was of his own free will that he was "wasting his time". He was certainly free to go and catch bad guys, instead of waste his time with someone who was a perfectly law abiding citizen. It was of his own choice that he wanted "enforce" a law that is unconstitutional. It did sort of make him look a little foolish though when a citizen stood up for his rights and the LEO became somewhat confused about it. Kinda made him wonder whether he should go through with it or not eh?

If you are worried about being a fool in public and being taped or recorded while doing so, keep to yourself and do not go outside. Otherwise, odds are.. Its going to happen sooner or later.

Otherwise.. In the end, people can argue about that "law being constitutional or not" till they're blue in the face. Basic fact is, if you wish not to be searched (your right) then it violates that right. Another reason why I am glad to not live in CA any longer.

As well. These postings are nothing more than showing the other side of the situation.
 
Absolutely not. What I do feel is that because they are regular guys just doing their jobs that they shouldn't be used as pawns by people who carry around video camera's, copies of the constitution and a page out of a voluminous legal statute or code book which they have memorized and done their own legal interpretation of said code or statute that were written by pencil pushing bureaucrats and then trying to make the police officer look like a fool. (run on sentence, sorry) And just because YOU say or think something is violating your rights doesn't make you automatically off limits for your actions.
Whew...You're right about one thing...It sure is a run on sentence. This is one step in challenging a law. Get it into court and let a judge decide or make it unenforceable.
In this particular case the fellow who was being questioned felt that the officer would be violating his 4th amendment rights by doing a lawful check to see if his weapon was unloaded. It's not the Officer's job to make an on the spot interpretation of the local legal statutes to verify the constitutionality of the statute and I resent that the fellow was attempting to do that.
Of course the whole oath to uphold the Constitution thing falls in there somewhere.
My point is go to the source, the Bureaucrats who wrote the laws and not waste the time of our tax payer funded law enforcement officers who have better things to do.
The bureaucrats aren't enforcing the laws. Getting this before a judge and/or normalizing open carry (since concealed carry is virtually impossible) is one method to challenge the law....What is wrong with that?

After all the lawmakers are the ones that put the officer on the chessboard.
 
I support peoples carry rights, but the guy making this video is purely being a douche and I commend the officers for keeping their cool.

If the douche making the video wanted to exercise his rights, he simply should have said that he is legally open carrying and that he was going to go on about his business. They never detained him or said he was detained. He was free to leave at any time without talking to the police. He WANTED them to detain him, and they DIDN'T DO IT.

Idiot, douches like the guy who made this video make us all look like unstable morons.
 
Today I walked out to the street to get the mail, and after getting back to the yard I found my sweatshirt hiked up over the top of my OWB holster. I immediately felt a chill, looking around my lot for who-knows-what, and involuntarily began practicing what I was going to say to the deputy if he appeared in my driveway.

In short, I felt like I'd committed a crime by accidentally OC'ing in an unincorporated area! Maybe I've just got a guilty conscience, but something seems wrong here when a law-abiding citizen feels like he's on the defensive merely for engaging in an uncommon behavior that others don't like.

I see the points made by other posters about asking for trouble, unnecessarily hassling The Man, and what kind of d-bag carries around a vidcam, for pete's sake, BUT...
Where do we draw the line? If the deputy had shown up on my private property, would I have refused to produce ID, just on principle? An MWAG call has to be answered, but where's his RAS?

Anyway. No deputy, no drama except in my head. I don't know what the best solution is, but this current state of affairs ain't it. You accidentally expose your weapon some night in Old Town, they'll have you proned out in a jiffy. Now everybody agrees that dictatorships are easier to police, but that's not exactly our society's highest goal. We've got to draw the line somewhere.
 
I thought the cops and the oc guy both did a fine job. The guy was a little confrontational. I would agree though that his thorough memorization of the law persuaded the officers not to go through with the what was probably going to be a search to make sure the gun was unloaded.

Kudos to the cops for keeping their cool and not detaining or violating the guys rights.

Kudos for the guy for having the cajones to make the video and be willing to stand up for his rights.

It would surprise me though if he knew that officer Kiefer frequented that coffee shop and had been stopping by frequently hoping for a chance to 'educate' the officer ;)
 
I guess the bad thing is about this that it just seems like these guys are trying to push buttons to get noticed. I watched a few of the videos and I am still not sure how I feel. I guess the thing that is kinda crap is catching bubblegum for open carry and empty when every NO GOOD THUG is packing and you will never know until it is too late and they do not pack empty or within the law.
So I guess it is more BS that a law abiding citizen cannot carry a loaded pistol in an open or concealed manner without being bugged. The way I look at it, the good guys are willing to show you they have a firearm, its the ones that dont they should be worried about(not including legal CCW holders which Comi-fornia does not allow).
 
Open Carry = 15 minutes of fame.

Just trying to piss people off and scare the locals.

There is absolutely no reason to open carry in an urban environment.Too many people that can take your gun from you
:cool:Don't get it twisted ,Cowboy,you ain't the fastest man on the planet.Somebody out there is faster and can take your gun if the so desire.:cool:

Open carry is our right and I do not want it to go away,but in the city is just looking for your 15 minutes.It is a bad representation of the gun owning public.

IT MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE A COWBOY,nothing else.

It gives you a tactical disadvantage in the real world.You have other thing you are doing in life and will lower your guard.letting the sidearm be easily taken.(No,you aint that good).

Concealed carry takes the focus off of you,nobody know you are armed.You aren't a target.

Out past me in Forks? OK bad example,they seem to be goofed in the head out there.
But out in the woods or the out lining areas,where people are used to guns,then open carry isn't a big deal.But it still brings attention.

Why would I want more attention on me,when I am carrying? I don't want to test my skills as a BAD ***.
I want to go home just the same as the cops and the normal citizens that called the cops on you do.

Grow up and conceal carry like the adults that got enough attention as kids do.

I don't know where the video was made at,but if it was in LA county or any part of SoCal,that guy is an idiot.
Especially if he can't even carry it loaded.
WTF?
 
Open Carry = 15 minutes of fame.

Just trying to piss people off and scare the locals.

There is absolutely no reason to open carry in an urban environment.Too many people that can take your gun from you
:cool:Don't get it twisted ,Cowboy,you ain't the fastest man on the planet.Somebody out there is faster and can take your gun if the so desire.:cool:

Open carry is our right and I do not want it to go away,but in the city is just looking for your 15 minutes.It is a bad representation of the gun owning public.

IT MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE A COWBOY,nothing else.

It gives you a tactical disadvantage in the real world.You have other thing you are doing in life and will lower your guard.letting the sidearm be easily taken.(No,you aint that good).

Concealed carry takes the focus off of you,nobody know you are armed.You aren't a target.

Out past me in Forks? OK bad example,they seem to be goofed in the head out there.
But out in the woods or the out lining areas,where people are used to guns,then open carry isn't a big deal.But it still brings attention.

Why would I want more attention on me,when I am carrying? I don't want to test my skills as a BAD ***.
I want to go home just the same as the cops and the normal citizens that called the cops on you do.

Grow up and conceal carry like the adults that got enough attention as kids do.

I don't know where the video was made at,but if it was in LA county or any part of SoCal,that guy is an idiot.
Especially if he can't even carry it loaded.
WTF?

that is exactly how i feel about the whole open carry deal especially the tactical disadvantage after all we are all supposed to carry for self defence not shock value . who in there right mind would carry with no ammo in your weapon :s0155:
 
BFD, seen him before. The J-strap with an empty XD on his hip gets a kick out of doing this.
I wish I had that 8 minutes of my life back.
 
And if the only way that you could carry was open and unloaded? Would you carry or just trust your luck? Or would you challenge the BS law and hope to educate the enforcers of said law? Would you work to change the law? Or roll over and accept what amounts to tyranny?
 
And if the only way that you could carry was open and unloaded? Would you carry or just trust your luck? Or would you challenge the BS law and hope to educate the enforcers of said law? Would you work to change the law? Or roll over and accept what amounts to tyranny?

That's a tough one in CA. I think it's stupid to have to carry unloaded (I assume your chamber and magazine have to be empty). But if that is the only legal way to carry a firearm in that state then I guess that's what you have to do.

But the way I see it in a state like CA, especially the south end :D, you're in a real tactical disadvantage. A much larger percentage of the population down there is criminal compared to where I live (an assumption I know) and if a criminal was about to commit his nefarious deed then it would be easy to take out the good guy with an impotent, empty pistol first.

Those politicians down there are a bunch of constitution hating thugs. I still hope N. California can form their own state some day. I would hate to live up and have to call myself a Californian. Get past Redding or Stockton and the state starts looking UGLY!!!! :s0114:
 
And if the only way that you could carry was open and unloaded? Would you carry or just trust your luck? Or would you challenge the BS law and hope to educate the enforcers of said law? Would you work to change the law? Or roll over and accept what amounts to tyranny?

If you are doing it with a group,then maybe.
But by yourself,with all the idiots down there,it's just stupid.
Kinda like saying "look at me,I have your new gun right here"
 
Open Carry = 15 minutes of fame.

Just trying to piss people off and scare the locals.

There is absolutely no reason to open carry in an urban environment.Too many people that can take your gun from you

It is a bad representation of the gun owning public.

It gives you a tactical disadvantage in the real world.

Concealed carry takes the focus off of you,nobody know you are armed.You aren't a target.

I don't know why people have such a burning desire to split up OCers vs CCers. They both have their advantages. Open carry has the advantage of deterrence, whereas many CCers have been assaulted because they looked like easy-pickins. As of yet, no OCer in recent times has had their firearm taken from them. Not saying it won't happen sometime, but of the thousands and thousands around the country, it hasn't happened yet. OC also allows citizens to see that people with firearms are normal everyday people and it gives people a chance to change their perceptions, whereas with CC, they can continue to have their bigoted misconceptions. As you already know, CC has its own advantages too.

I believe for most OCers, it's not about 15 minutes...it's largely about deterrence. It's like a dog showing his teeth so that the other dog knows that he shouldn't try something. A good example is of a fellow OCer down in Seattle who was at a convenience store talking to the clerk when an armed man came rushing in and did a 180 when he saw the OCer. Similar story in Georgia at a restaurant.

And the whole carrying a video camera around isn't because they want 15 minutes of fame. It's because if they don't carry around the camera, then it's just his word against the cops. Which is why a fellow OCer up in Bellingham just settled a lawsuit with the police for unlawful detainment after having a man in an unmarked SUV point a gun at him and then detain him for walking down the street OCing. That would have been swept under the rug without audio/video evidence.

As for the video, the guy was a little too argumentative. The standard procedure is, "Am I being detained?" If not, then it's "Have a good day officer." and keep your mouth shut. If yes, then it's, "What is the RAS for my detainment?" The police did in fact do their check on his firearm...so he was detained. It's just not shown in this video...they waited for him to get out of the bathroom.
 
I wish he would just walk Hollywood Blvd. at 2 in the morning and try that. LOL I bet his camera would not work. You can only do that in broad day light in a public place.

I think the guy is a *** and just begging to get tazed or shot.
 

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