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Very interesting article regarding common link between mass shooters.

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by Phillyfan, Apr 2, 2013.

  1. Phillyfan

    Phillyfan Oregon City, Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Nearly Every Mass Shooting In The Last 20 Years Shares One Thing In Common, & It's NOT Weapons

    Curious to hear what you guys think. I'm not sure what it proves, other than the fact that these people all had issues to begin with. So are the drugs a cause or a symptom that the shooters all seem to share? And, either way, what could be done about it. If it is decided/proven that these drugs have a side affect that can lead certain people down this road, then do we need to take guns away from all people using them? If we did that, how many people would not come forward to get the help they need because they didn't want to be labeled as a threat?

    Lots of questions this raises for me, and I haven't got the answers. Something to think about though.
     
  2. Rotty

    Rotty Skagit County Active Member

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    The shooting I was involved in nearly 20 years ago the shooter was previously discharged from the military on a "psychological discharge". In other words the shooter had some serious mental issues to get himself discharged from the military.

    Your article seems to fit the shooter reasonably well in my opinion. He was on anti depressants. Not sure what anti depressant he was on Prozac was was popular back then.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2013
  3. blankman32k

    blankman32k Peoples Republic of PDX Member

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    Really illuminating article. It is too bad, that he began with a "conspiratorial" discussion of the mysterious death. I think this distracts from the conversation and would simply allow any readers "on the fence" to write off the rest of the content. Some, might even call it a False Flag effort to distract from the important facts that over prescription of psychotropic drugs are having a profound effect on our population.
     
  4. Phillyfan

    Phillyfan Oregon City, Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Agreed, the conspiracy angle does take away from a very profound idea.
     
  5. mosinguy1

    mosinguy1 out by the ocean Active Member

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    I know this has been brought up before on here, I too think there is a huge link in the drugs and what has happened.

    I also know there is evidence that removing certain processed food items can also get rid of alot of the things these drugs are prescribed for, like red dyes and a bunch of other stuff.

    search processed food and mental illness and get ready for a whole lot off reading. There is some good info worth looking at.

    It is a shame people dont take the time to look at what they are eating and see the harm in thier laziness.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2013
  6. Phillyfan

    Phillyfan Oregon City, Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Added a poll. I realize there are more options than what I put up, but they were all I could think of at the time. You should read the article before voting.
     
  7. Scout67

    Scout67 Milwaukie Member

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    I agree with diet being a factor, I don't know that poor diet is all about laziness though. Healthy food is very expensive while processed food is usually much cheaper.
     
    mosinguy1 and (deleted member) like this.
  8. Clarkie46

    Clarkie46 Near Portland, OR Member

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    Tried the link to the article and got a warning from my security software that the site was an "attack page," i.e., had the potential to load malware on my computer. Anybody else had that warning?
     
  9. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    I believe the "chemical", and dietary habits of our society could be a contributing factor, BUT "man shall not live by bread alone"... We as a society, (in fact as a species) are "broken", mentally and "spiritually". What you feed your mind, you WILL manifest through action/inaction.

    Have you ever noticed how the masses are "tossed to and fro", they "run this way, and that way", led around by the nose by all the "cults of personalities" out there? The people are starved for, and are desparetly seeking "the answer"... false hope abounds, ESPECIALLY from our government(s). Relying on others for "stregnth" is easy, being weak is easy... Taking a stand and developing stregnth and self-reliance takes effort... Human nature tends towards the path of least resistance and instant gratification, hence the proliferation of weakness and broken souls.

    "Garbage in, garbage out" applies physically and mentally/spiritually. Stop eating from the "dumpsters"!
     
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  10. Phillyfan

    Phillyfan Oregon City, Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Wow, check this site out. Maybe the left and the right should get together and start regulating the use of these drugs, rather than guns.

    SSRI Stories
     
  11. bwchase

    bwchase Pacific City Active Member

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    OP
    Poll choices listed are not acceptable for me to make a reasonable voting selection.
     
  12. TapRackNGo

    TapRackNGo PNW Well-Known Member

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    Yes, please copy and paste here.
     
  13. solv3nt

    solv3nt Portland Well-Known Member

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  14. mosinguy1

    mosinguy1 out by the ocean Active Member

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    The lazy comes from not taking the time to read the labels. As for making it a lil less expensive is the farmers markets.

    I realize that a bunch of people dont have the space but if one does a small garden will help too.
     
  15. JackThompson

    JackThompson Valley of the Demons Well-Known Member

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    End psychotropic drug use.

    That's my answer.
     
  16. SynapticSilence

    SynapticSilence Battle Ground, WA Well-Known Member

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    If you end psychotropic drug use, the large percentage of people whose psychosis and paranoia are controlled effectively will decompensate and some will increase the numbers of those who cross over into psychotic mass killings. I know. I keep them in the hospital when they're off their meds and wanting to kill themselves or others. Not all meds are bad. They're bad when used improperly or by physicians who don't know what they're doing.
     
  17. Phillyfan

    Phillyfan Oregon City, Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    As someone who actually has been taking some of these drugs for years I can tell you that the real problem is when you miss a couple days, or try to go off of it. It really screws with you. Uncomfortable is an understatement. I think this is where a lot of the trouble comes from, just a guess. Synaptic mentioning "off their meds" made me think of it.
     
  18. Phillyfan

    Phillyfan Oregon City, Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Here is the article for those of you having trouble.

    Manasquan, NJ --(Ammoland.com)- Nearly every mass shooting incident in the last twenty years, and multiple other instances of suicide and isolated shootings all share one thing in common, and its not the weapons used.

    The overwhelming evidence points to the signal largest common factor in all of these incidents is the fact that all of the perpetrators were either actively taking powerful psychotropic drugs or had been at some point in the immediate past before they committed their crimes.

    Multiple credible scientific studies going back more then a decade, as well as internal documents from certain pharmaceutical companies that suppressed the information show that SSRI drugs ( Selective Serotonin Re-Uptake Inhibitors ) have well known, but unreported side effects, including but not limited to suicide and other violent behavior. One need only Google relevant key words or phrases to see for themselves. SSRI Stories is one popular site that has documented over 4500 “ Mainstream Media “ reported cases from around the World of aberrant or violent behavior by those taking these powerful drugs.

    The following list of mass shooting perpetrators and the drugs they were taking or had been taking shortly before their horrific actions was compiled and published to Facebook by John Noveske, founder and owner of Noveske Rifleworks just days before he was mysteriously killed in a single car accident. Is there a link between Noveske’s death and his “outting” of information numerous disparate parties would prefer to suppress, for a variety of reasons ?

    I leave that to the individual readers to decide. But there is most certainly a documented history of people who “knew to much” or were considered a “threat” dying under extraordinarily suspicious circumstances.

    From Katherine Smith, a Tennessee DMV worker who was somehow involved with several 9/11 hijackers obtaining Tennessee Drivers Licenses, and was later found burned to death in her car, to Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Gary Webb, who exposed a CIA Operation in the 80′s that resulted in the flooding of LA Streets with crack cocaine and was later found dead from two gunshot wounds to the head, but was officially ruled as a “suicide“, to Frank Olson, a senior research micro biologist who was working on the CIA’s mind control research program MKULTRA.

    After Olson expressed his desire to leave the program, he was with a CIA agent in a New York hotel room, and is alleged to have committed “suicide” by throwing himself off the tenth floor balcony. In 1994, Olson’s sons were successful in their efforts to have their fathers body exhumed and re examined in a second autopsy by James Starrs, Professor of Law and Forensic science at the National Law Center at George Washington University. Starr’s team concluded that the blunt force trauma to the head and injury to the chest had not occurred during the fall but most likely in the room before the fall. The evidence was called “rankly and starkly suggestive of homicide.” Based on his findings, in 1996 the Manhattan District Attorney opened a homicide investigation into Olson’s death, but was unable to find enough evidence to bring charges.

    As I said, I leave it to the individual readers to make up their own minds if Noveske suffered a similar fate. On to the list of mass shooters and the stark link to psychotropic drugs.

    •Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold’s medical records have never been made available to the public.
    •Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.
    •Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.
    •Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.
    •Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.
    •Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.
    •Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.
    •Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.
    •A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.
    •Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..
    •A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.
    •Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.
    •TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.
    •Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.
    •James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.
    •Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania
    •Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California
    •Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.
    •Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.
    •Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic’s file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.
    •Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.
    •Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.
    •Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.
    •Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.
    •Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family’s Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.
    •Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara’s parents said “…. the damn doctor wouldn’t take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil…”)
    •Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,
    •(Gareth’s father could not accept his son’s death and killed himself.)
    •Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family’s detached garage.
    •Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.
    •Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.
    •Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.
    •A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.
    •Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and “other drugs for the conditions.”
    •Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.
    •Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.
    •Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.
    •Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.
    •Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his
    •New York high school.
    Missing from list… 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds….

    •What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21…… killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az
    •What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24….. killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado
    •What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or
    •What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct
    Those focusing on further firearms bans or magazine restrictions are clearly focusing on the wrong issue and asking the wrong questions, either as a deliberate attempt to hide these links, or out of complete and utter ignorance.

    Don’t let them! Force our elected “representatives” and the media to cast a harsh spotlight on this issue. Don’t stop hounding them until they do.



    Read more at Ammoland.com: Nearly Every Mass Shooting In The Last 20 Years Shares One Thing In Common, & It's NOT Weapons
     
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  19. blankman32k

    blankman32k Peoples Republic of PDX Member

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    That answer is at the same logical level as "ban all guns".

    There are some that argue that Europe and japans’ lower violent crime rates with weapons has more to deal with their better mental health care systems. The drugs can do a lot of good when properly supervised and a continuing course of care is followed. The US has more of a "treat'em and and street'em approach" which results in problems in getting accurate dose levels and ensuring consistency in consumption. There are also some of those nasty side affects such as suicidal tendencies that can crop up, and without follow-up can manifest in unfortunate ways.

    I think the real concern is that a major variable in the mass shootings discussion, psychotropic drugs and how they are administered, is not being discussed as part of the resolution. For example, I didn't hear Ron Pierre calling for a review of impacts of pharmaceuticals, only more armed response in schools. I think this had to do that big pharma, the big HMOs and Gov. health policy is a much bigger dog than the firearms industry.

     
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  20. Phillyfan

    Phillyfan Oregon City, Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    OK, what would be one for you? I am just trying to get a dialogue going about it. To me, it seems like this is the area we need to start looking at if we want to really do something to prevent or reduce the frequency of these attacks.

    Trust me, I don't take it lightly. As I mentioned I am on psychotropic drugs myself. If it was proven that the use of these drugs is a root cause, I would gladly submit myself to whatever monitoring necassary for the greater good. I want these things to stop.