Vehicle Carry in WA?

[HahnsXD]

I'm trying to figure out if it is legal (with a CPL) to carry your gun in your vehicle while it's not on your person, some people on other forums were giving me both answers and the law is a little confusing.
The law regarding vehicle carry reads:

A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

After going over it several times I believe it is legal to keep my gun in my console, ect, while driving, is this correct?

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[spinfree]

It has to be on your person while you are in the vehicle, I was informed when I was stopped for a tail light and my pistol was in the glove box loaded.

 

[HahnsXD]

But why would there be both of these "The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there," if the second is illegal?
I hate this confusing crap..

 

[JUSTIficatioN]

if the pistol is LOCKED in your glove box then it is also CONCEALED FROM VIEW. Which to me says that it is legal to carry a firearm in your glove box. Might not be a great idea if thats where you keep your registration/insurance, but the way the RCW is worded makes it out to be legal (in my mind). But i'm no expert.

 

[Member 5605]

On person:

From what I understand and it's limited that in an unlocked glove box is not a secured location.

 

[cwegga]

Well, firstly the OP in in Washington so there is no requirement that the pistol be in a secured location.

Second I have also read that RCW about a billion times trying to figure out if it is allowed to carry not on your person in a car with a CPL. As far as I can tell it is ok. That being said, you'd probably be best asking a lawyer for a lawyer speak interpretation and even then the cops don't necessarily know the law or interpret it the right way. Check out the thread about suppressor confiscation in the NFA forum if you want examples of that.

 

[Jerry]

The Attorney General for the State of Washington issued an opinion regarding this matter on March 13, 1987, in response to a query from State senator Kent Pullen.

Senator Pullen asked the following:

"May a person who possesses a valid concealed weapon permit, and who is within a vehicle, legally possess a loaded pistol within the vehicle which is not on his or her person?"

I received a copy of the AG's opinion from Joe Waldron. I can't find an electronic version. The opinion was summarized in the last paragraph as follows:

"In summary, the plain language of the statute, internal consistency and legislative intent all require an affirmative answer to your question. RCW 9.41.050 permits a person who possesses a valid concealed weapon permit, and who is within a vehicle to legally possess a loaded pistol within the vehicle which is not on his or her person."


Richard A. Heath
Sr. Assistant Attorney General

cc: Christine O. Gregoire, Deputy Attorney General
Chip Holcomb, Asistant Attorney General - WSP


RCW 9.41.505 was ammended (HB 600) in 1982 to allow such carry in a vehicle. The old version specifically required that a loaded pistol be on a person while in a vehicle.

HAve a good day.

Jerry

 

[HahnsXD]

Awesome, thanks!

 

[Gunwheeler]

All good and well until a passenger without a concealed permit sits in the front seat closer than the driver to the glove box. At that point the passenger has control of the weapon. The problems start. My wife has a concealed for that reason alone. No harm, no foul.

 

[HahnsXD]

Never said I was putting it in the glovebox.. I also haven't seen anything on the books regarding "control" over the weapon although it is obvious that you can't leave a loaded weapon in your vehicle if the passenger(s) does not have a CPL.
I also found another source from a LEO training letter regarding open carry..

SQUAD TRAINING
It has recently come to our attention that a group calling
itself, "Pacific Northwest Open Carry" and with a spokesman
named Lonnie Wilson, has an agenda that deals with the
peaceable open carrying of a handgun in a holster. He says
that while doing his research to write an informational
bulletin for the public and for law enforcement, he asked a
number of BPD officers if it was legal to carry a handgun in
public, in the open, in a holster. He says he received a
variety of answers, ranging from, it is legal, to, it is a
felony, to, you will be stopped and arrested for brandishing.
As a refresher, the Corporals will go over the following:
1. Washington is an "open carry" state for firearms. This
means a person may carry a firearm in an exposed holster
unless there is something that makes it specifically illegal.
For example, carrying a weapon onto school grounds or other
prohibited places or carrying a weapon by most convicted
felons or anyone convicted of a domestic violence crime.

2. Unlawful carrying or display. RCW 9.41.270 occurs when
the person carries or displays a weapon in a manner under
circumstances at a time and place that manifests alarm for the
safety of persons or with an intent to intimidate. This is
something more than just walking around with an exposed
firearm. If there is a dispute for example and one person,
while angry, displays the weapon to scare the other person.

3. Carrying without a Concealed Weapons Permit, RCW 9.41.050,
occurs when a person carries a CONCEALED pistol on his person
and does not have a CWP. A person with a CWP can carry a
firearm in a vehicle without having the weapon on his person.

 

[JumpWing]

A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, OR (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

I highlighted the key words above. The conditions are that the person must have a CPL and meet at least one of the following (i) (ii) "or" (iii). If all three conditions must be met, then the word "or" must be replaced with "and".

 

[Wenis]

And if the vehicle itself is locked, then it can also be argued that the firearm is in a locked container.

Regardless, I keep a console vault in my truck

 

[tionico]

And if the vehicle itself is locked, then it can also be argued that the firearm is in a locked container.

Regardless, I keep a console vault in my truck

if the weapon is not on the person of the owner, AND it is within the vehicle ANd the vehicle is locked AND the weapon is not visible from the outside of the vehicle, it is legal.

on the floor, covered by a towel or rag is "concealed from view". If the vehicle is locked while the owner is gone, it is legal.

The intent is that the weapon not be visible from outside the vehicle, so some creep passing by could see it, break the window, and steal it.

This sort of thing is one of the main reasons I got my CPL..... makes all sorts of scenarios that would otherwise make me a criminal go away......

 

[TCOV]

I have a copy of the Attorney General Of Washington letter clearly stating that it is legal for a CWP holder to possess a loaded pistol in the vehicle and not on his or her person. I keep a copy in my glove box as many LEO are confused on this. There was an amendment to RCW 9.41.050 by the legislater House Bill 600 in 1982 that allowed this. I have tried to copy the letter here but no luck. I would email a copy to someone if they wanted and maybe they could post it here.

 

[supergenius]

I have a copy of the Attorney General Of Washington letter clearly stating that it is legal for a CWP holder to possess a loaded pistol in the vehicle and not on his or her person. I keep a copy in my glove box as many LEO are confused on this. There was an amendment to RCW 9.41.050 by the legislater House Bill 600 in 1982 that allowed this. I have tried to copy the letter here but no luck. I would email a copy to someone if they wanted and maybe they could post it here.

I would like a copy of that...

[email protected]

thank you!

 

[TCOV]

Supergenius I sent an email attachment of the letter. It looks like the pages may be out of order and the file too large. If this doesn't work for you I can try again in a different format.

 

[Skid_McCoy]

Current law - http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.050

It better be unloaded.

 

[TCOV]

Skid, the Attorney General Office is the supreme law enforcement agency for the state of Washington and they read RCW 9.41.050 as allowing a concealed pistol permit holder to have a loaded pistol in the vehicle without being on their person, as was the intent of the state legislature. They state that the language is interpreted in the manner that makes the most sense. I was stopped by WSP once and he asked for my pistol after seeing my permit and said nothing about it being covered by a rag on the driveline hump. I showed the leter to a county deputy and he was suprised and agreed that it was clear that it was ok to have off person. The opinion was requested by then State Senator Kent Pullen,47th District in 1987.

 

[Skid_McCoy]

I was stopped by WSP once and he asked for my pistol after seeing my permit and said nothing about it being covered by a rag on the driveline hump.

You were "in" the car. My point is if you leave your weapon in the car because your going into a place that doesn't allow you to carry. And regarding the Attorney Generals Office, you'll find that every district attorney and judge just MAY interrupt it differently. Best to stay out of court.

 

[TCOV]

Skid please read the RCW again. If you have a permit to carry concealed you may leave your loaded pistol in the vehicle if it is out of sight and the vehicle locked. The key is being licensed to carry a concealed pistol.