varget powder

deadshot2 · Aug 17, 2012

tdocz said:
Lmao! I think I may have to purchase a "personal massager" myself. I saw one that had adjustments for both European and Asian massage modes. I'd probably just leave the device on Asian massage, since I suspect firearms might shoot better with ammo that has been treated to a happy ending.

Sent from my LG-E739 using Tapatalk 2

You just need to be sure your ammo doesn't "go off too soon".

Darkker · Aug 17, 2012

AMProducts said:
You know what the great thing is about Varget? It's pretty insensitive to charge variations and temperature changes. As long as you're not red-lining the load, just let it wander. Also, this powder seems to perform most accurately at minimum, not at maximum, I think I'm pushing a 150gr SMK with 44.5grs and it's a dream to shoot out of my .308... nice mellow load, and as accurate as I could ever want.

Also, to the person talking about charge weights growing over time, that's called powder settling, that's why many powder measures have a baffle in them.

Well, MAYBE...
Varget and all the rest of the "Extreme" powders can only be built to be so for a specific application. Doesn't mean that they are miserable in others, but the "claims" are NOT well backed-up. The "tests" to prove the properties have almost zero info along with them, as far as replications, etc. One of the powders used as a competitor hasn't been available for a VERY long time... Varget DOES really shine in the 308, but is rather miserable(relatively speaking) in the 223 for example. Unfortunately, Hogdon won't tell you what they were built for; they just claim and let the reload ASSume that it is a universal property.

As for the part about charge WEIGHTS varying, when using a VOLUME measurer.
That is completely normal, AND expected. No powder is perfectly "one composition" the whole way through, and the properties change with time/age. Powder densities vary, along with burning rates.
Measuring by VOLUME over the course of these variations, keeps pressures much more consistent than by using weight alone. When you hook-up your Pressure Trace, or Ohler pressure lab, you can see this.
Neither way is wrong, just different. JUST because the weight varies, doesn't directly mean that there is a problem; there COULD be, but it doesn't mean there is.
Weight and volume are inter-related, but not interchangeable.

jib · Aug 17, 2012

I use Varget for .308 Win it meters ok, but with Varget I weight each load.
I also use BL-C2 for .308 Win and it meters spot on, but it does not burn as clean as Varget for me.

deadshot2 · Aug 18, 2012

Darkker said:
Weight and volume are inter-related, but not interchangeable.

The big issue is that measuring by "volume" is far more difficult than by "weight". The granular structure of a powder will often give far ranging weights even though the volume is the same. Energy content is on the basis of BTU's per weight unit. Burn rates however may be more determined by density of the charge in addition to the structure of the granules. This is one of those areas where there is no one right answer and perhaps no consensus ever.

There are those who weigh and swear by it. There are those who "dump" and believe that method is the only way. Both often are "winners" in their various disciplines. Point Blank BR shooters probably never weigh other than the first few loads just for their records. LR Shooters lately have started buying scales that run in the thousands of $$ so they can measure their charge weights down to the last .02gr.

Which one is right? Depends on which one's accomplishing their goal of winning.

For a Hunter, the answer is merely whether there's a dead animal in the bed of the truck when they return home.

As for Varget, it likes a FULL case. More consistent when close to 100% case fill. That pretty much gives it away as a .308 sized case powder. That said, the military has settled on IMR 4064 for their replacement to the M118LR round, now called the MK316 Mod 0.