USPS firearm theft.

[Member 38805]

In the future I'll pay the much higher price of "registered" mail. Registered requires that every time the package changes hands it has to be signed for by the person accepting it, so they are responsible for insuring it gets passed on to the next person, and signed for when it happens. This also gives you detailed tracking, so you can see where it changed hands each time. Only drawback is registered mail is the slowest method, as it can't be Priority and be Registered, since Priority travels the fastest, cheapest methods.

 

[Member 38805]

The SCUM will of course sell it. Have to hope he is caught when he does

No... you're wrong, unless something has changed very recently, when your ship a package you choose the amount you wish to insure your package for and they charge you accordingly based on that amount. If you're relying on the "standard" insurance that comes with it that is only for like 50 bucks or something stupid in which case you are screwed.

No, I'm afraid you are the one whose wrong. I've filed claims in several occasions, and every time they require proof of the value, and if you insure it for anything over the proven value they wont pay over what your proof states it to be.
If you don't believe me, just contact any of the largest three shippers, and they'll tell you the same.
Insure it for triple if you just like to toss away money, but don't expect triple when it's stolen, or lost.

 

[ma96782]

RE : Post #19

Legitimate or not.....
Questions by the USPS employee is subject to vary somewhat from the script.

Yup.....the box looks like it could contain a firearm and it might be going illegally.

Hummmm.....ignorance of the law (or postal regulations)? Shipping legally. Is ultimately the shipper's responsibility. Rrrrright......

BUT SO.....is there a "real harm" in asking, informing, or reminding, the shipper of postal regulations? Otherwise, why ask anything at all?

Aloha, Mark

 

[titsonritz]

No, I'm afraid you are the one whose wrong. I've filed claims in several occasions, and every time they require proof of the value, and if you insure it for anything over the proven value they wont pay over what your proof states it to be.
If you don't believe me, just contact any of the largest three shippers, and they'll tell you the same.
Insure it for triple if you just like to toss away money, but don't expect triple when it's stolen, or lost.

You have filed multiple claims and you're still using them? I think I found your problem. If that is the case then they are being deceitful selling their insurance. How to you set a price on intellectual property?

 

[ma96782]

RE : Post #23

LOL.....I just thought about it. What would you rather happen?

So, imagine the case where......

I long box (maybe it could/it looks like it could contain a firearm) is presented to the USPS counter for delivery to ________ (out of state).

The employee goes "off the script" and tries to determine if it contains a firearm.

The employee asks: "Does this box contain a firearm?"

What will you say?

"None ya...."
or
"Yes, it's an antique firearm."

What do you think will happen if/when?
The first response was given?
Or, the second response?

Get the US Postal Inspector on the phone. Extra secret, double x-ray, and "eyes/hands on" inspections are in order?
Or, maybe some follow on questions: "Is it in a "safe/unloaded for shipping condition and do you wish to purchase insurance, etc.....etc.......?"

Aloha, Mark

 

[Member 38805]

You have filed multiple claims and you're still using them? I think I found your problem. If that is the case then they are being deceitful selling their insurance. How to you set a price on intellectual property?

I never said I'd filed multiple claims with USPS. I've been an FFL holder, and used all three of the main shippers, and had to file claims with all of them. Just because you're wrong, don't turn this into some pissing match.
Intellectual property? Who ships that, and what will someone pay? If somebody buys something from you, you've got proof of the payment which suffices for what it's worth. You simply attach the proof to your claim, and that's all they need.
I've lost track of how many packages I've shipped even in a year, so I'm maybe shipping far more than the average guy is. So maybe my "problem" is not relevant to what your experience seems to be.

 

[GrayGoose]

 

[Member 38805]

RE : Post #23

LOL.....I just thought about it. What would you rather happen?

So, imagine the case where......

I long box (maybe it could/it looks like it could contain a firearm) is presented to the USPS counter for delivery to ________ (out of state).

The employee goes "off the script" and tries to determine if it contains a firearm.

The employee asks: "Does this box contain a firearm?"

What will you say?

"None ya...."
or
"Yes, it's an antique firearm."

What do you think will happen if/when?
The first response was given?
Or, the second response?

Extra secret, double x-ray inspections are in order?
Or, maybe some follow on questions: "Is it in a "safe/unloaded for shipping condition and do you wish to purchase insurance, etc.....etc......."

Aloha, Mark

This scenario has actually happened to me, and it took me finally being told by USPS to please take your rifle to a different PO station to end it.
I walked into my local PO and handed the clerk a long package. He said, "Wow, that's a long, heavy package. What's in this?"
Me knowing it was fine to ship an antique rifle, I told him what it was. He freaked out, and said USPS doesn't allow firearms shipments. I told him they indeed did, and I shipped them often. He got his supervisor, and she reiterated the same thing he said. I gave up and went home. Called USPS main center down on 11th and Hoyt then, and their expert gave me the rules and where to print them out online. I printed them out, and returned to ship the rifle. Another clerk refused the package, and I showed him USPS rules stating it was OK, but he too refused, even after seeing the highlighted portions, and wouldn't call the number at Main USPS to talk to their firearms shipping expert.
I got home and called him again, and he was really irritated. He apologized and asked me to go to another USPS station, and told me to tell them it was none of their business if they asked what was inside. Ever since then I've never told them what's inside, and simply told them I didn't wish to answer questions outside of the normal 4 questions. No more issues.

PS-According to USPS reps, they do not have Xray equipment. I specifically asked this, as I thought maybe they occasionally did xray packages and could see a gun? But the rep said they never Xray packages.

 

[titsonritz]

Just because you're wrong, don't turn this into some pissing match.

Sorry, didn't realize that is what I was doing. Sorry you got fcvked. Have fun with your thread. Adios.

 

[ma96782]

RE : Post #28
Thank You for posting about your experience on the matter.

My shipping has been limited (I'm NOT an FFL). That being said. Long ago I realized that.......like it or not.......

Generally.....the common carriers make their own rules on how they want firearms to be shipped (overnight, same day or whatever). Mostly it's because they can't trust their employees w/ the possibility of THEFT. Not to mention that making LARGE PROFITS is the name of the game. So, shipping charges can/will quickly mount.

*THINGS MAY HAVE CHANGED* Because of poor training, some UPS and FedEx employees THINK that shipping of firearms is authorized ONLY between FFLs. That is just NOT true. Speak to the KNOWLEDGEABLE people. It's also a good idea to have a printed copy of their rules in hand, before going to the shipping center. *THINGS MAY HAVE CHANGED*

And then......the TRAINING issue.....could also apply to the USPS employees. Anyway.....the USPS regulations are downloadable on the internet.

Story Time.

The last time that I had a disagreement with the USPS. It was over the issue of, parking too close to the mailbox. Mind you, NOT blocking it. But, I'll admit that I was parked about 9'9" away from the mailbox (I measured). So anyway, I got 8 stickers (official-looking "Post It" style) stuck to my vehicle for my parking effort.

Curious......
I asked the Vancouver PD about the various parking regulations for the city. I was informed, that there was no LAW about parking within X feet of a mailbox. But....obviously, don't block access to the mailbox.

So then.....
I went down to the "Mail Carrier" unit (in Vancouver, near my home). I showed the supervisor the eight stickers that I had peeled off of my vehicle. *Additionally, I pointed out the fact that I (my vehicle) was singled out. Yeah.......the neighbor doesn't get the sticker treatment, even though he has parked his SUV even closer to the mailbox.

The supervisor said......
That the delivery vehicle(s) needs to have free (unencumbered) access to the mailbox. And thus, USPS regulations forbade any vehicle from parking within 15 feet of the mailbox. Also, I should understand that USPS vehicles are prohibited from reversing into a parking space to deliver mail. So then......15' before and after the mailbox is THE REGULATION.

My response was:
Yeah, Rrrrrright...... That sounds like a USPS Problem. Not mine. My parking is NOT against the LAW. If.....the USPS has a problem with me parking too close. Then, contact the Police.

Aloha, Mark

PS......*Yeah, you can't catch all of the fish in the sea.

 

[washagonian]

Since it's lost/stolen, it seems to me that you need to report it to the police. Might spare you from further grief later on.

It is a pretty thing.

Since this is a Federal entity, I'm not sure local police have any jurisdiction? And being a "antique" 1885 vintage, it's considered a "non firearm" by ATF.

Just a thought about reporting a firearm theft:

Oregon SB 554, past this year, specifically outlines in Section 5 that an Oregonian must report a firearm stolen with 72 hours to the law enforcement agency in the jurisdiction where the loss or theft occurred. SSB 554 doesn't exclude Antiques and Curios. Not reporting is a "Class C violation" (they don't specific but I'm pretty sure it's a class C misdemeanor).

If the firearm is used unlawfully by someone within 2 years after it's stolen and the owner did not report it stolen, the owner assumes liability for damages / personal injury because the violation of not reporting the firearm stolen constitutes "negligence".

Not that it's likely your particular firearm will be used in a crime - no exactly a "hi-cap 9mm" lung buster.

Just thought I'd point that out.

I'm finding that many Oregon firearms owners are still unfamiliar with the details of SB 554. Whether we like it or not, it is reality and I feel I have a personal responsibility to be aware of it.

Sorry you got your gun stolen and I hope you find some type of resolution.

Best.

 

[Member 53328]

No you're wrong!

No you're wrong!

No you're wrong!

 

[Alexx1401]

You have filed multiple claims and you're still using them? I think I found your problem. If that is the case then they are being deceitful selling their insurance. How to you set a price on intellectual property?

I have very seldom shipped anything with USPS. Have insured a few over the years, never had one lost. Have at times wondered how this works if they just lose the damn thing. If I insured it for say $500, how would I "prove" it was worth $500?? Anyone actually had to file a claim with them? What is it they are asking for "proof" and if they do not want to pay why would they sell you $500 worth of insurance if they have no intention of paying it out?

 

[Cavedweller]

In the future I'll pay the much higher price of "registered" mail. Registered requires that every time the package changes hands it has to be signed for by the person accepting it, so they are responsible for insuring it gets passed on to the next person, and signed for when it happens. This also gives you detailed tracking, so you can see where it changed hands each time. Only drawback is registered mail is the slowest method, as it can't be Priority and be Registered, since Priority travels the fastest, cheapest methods.

I had always assumed that anything of value or importance, if sent thru the USPS, should be sent registered, due to the chain of custody. So that's probably a good move on your part. Actually, I'm surprised to hear that firearms are sent otherwise.

View attachment 1277379

"Man, that water sure is cold!"

"Yeah, deep too."

 

[Alexx1401]

YES....your firearm is a legitimate antique. So no problem with shipping via USPS.

BUT, But, but.......
YEAH, it's the USPS. LOL.

Then......
YEAH, those people who want to ship firearms in the mail declaring them/claiming them as:

"Machined Parts."

Hummmmmm?

Aloha, Mark

Now I have not yet seen anyone suggesting that with the USPS. If they do that is a HUGE risk. I have done this with common carrier's. I was just shipping a couple guns to myself when flying. I did not want to deal with the robots by telling them it was a gun. I have mentioned if they ever lost one not sure what would happen. So far never had to find out and the guns I was doing this with were not something I would cry if lost. I "think" doing this with the USPS is some kind of criminal thing??? If so would not try that with them.

 

[Provincial]

Just a thought about reporting a firearm theft:

Oregon SB 554, past this year, specifically outlines in Section 5 that an Oregonian must report a firearm stolen with 72 hours to the law enforcement agency in the jurisdiction where the loss or theft occurred. SSB 554 doesn't exclude Antiques and Curios. Not reporting is a "Class C violation" (they don't specific but I'm pretty sure it's a class C misdemeanor).

If the firearm is used unlawfully by someone within 2 years after it's stolen and the owner did not report it stolen, the owner assumes liability for damages / personal injury because the violation of not reporting the firearm stolen constitutes "negligence".

Not that it's likely your particular firearm will be used in a crime - no exactly a "hi-cap 9mm" lung buster.

Just thought I'd point that out.

I'm finding that many Oregon firearms owners are still unfamiliar with the details of SB 554. Whether we like it or not, it is reality and I feel I have a personal responsibility to be aware of it.

Sorry you got your gun stolen and I hope you find some type of resolution.

Best.

I believe that he doesn't yet know if the gun has been stolen, or it is wandering somewhere within the USPS Twilight Zone. Under the circumstances, until the USPS notifies him that the gun is stolen, it is only speculation, and the clock hasn't started yet. Suspicion isn't knowledge, unless you are the FBI trying to fool a judge.

 

[washagonian]

I believe that he doesn't yet know if the gun has been stolen, or it is wandering somewhere within the USPS Twilight Zone. Under the circumstances, until the USPS notifies him that the gun is stolen, it is only speculation, and the clock hasn't started yet. Suspicion isn't knowledge, unless you are the FBI trying to fool a judge.

@Provincial - Thanks for the comment and I see your point that it is not known if the firearm was stolen yet.

Please don't misunderstand my intention regarding my following comment. I'm not trying to be contrarian or argumentative. Also, my comments here do not mean that I agree with SB 554. It's just that, as I read SB 554, it requires reporting if a firearm is "LOST" or stolen. Specifically:

"Section 5. (1)(a). A person who owns, possesses or controls a firearm shall report the loss or theft of the firearm to a law enforcement agency in the jurisdiction in which the loss or theft occurred as soon as is practicable but not later than within 72 hours of the time the person knew or reasonable should have known of the loss or theft."

It might be arguable that this particular firearm is lost, since it is not where it's supposed to be and the agency entrusted with it's possession for shipping doesn't know either.

In researching SB 554, this section was prompted by many motivations, one of which was the effort to make sure that a firearm was in the possession and under the control of an authorized person at all times. If it's lost, but later recovered, my understanding of the law is that while the owner is not in possession nor knows where the firearm is, the new law requires that it be reported as lost within 72 hours.

To that end I'm only sharing my understanding of the law. But I'm not an attorney and so folks should take what they like and leave the rest.

Cheers.

 

[Member 38805]

I have very seldom shipped anything with USPS. Have insured a few over the years, never had one lost. Have at times wondered how this works if they just lose the damn thing. If I insured it for say $500, how would I "prove" it was worth $500?? Anyone actually had to file a claim with them? What is it they are asking for "proof" and if they do not want to pay why would they sell you $500 worth of insurance if they have no intention of paying it out?

Proof is pretty easy to prove. In my case I simply attached copies of our emails back and forth discussing the price, when I shipped it, and messages telling him how it shipped, and the tracking number. So there's plenty of history for a claim.
In the past all I did was copy my sales receipt showing what the buyer paid, and that was proof of value. Hard to dispute it's not worth a certain amount unless you insured it for more than it sold for.

Issues have arisen when there's damage, as USPS wants "replacement cost estimates" so finding say a replacement stock for a gun from 1885 is almost impossible, and having one built to match can cost more than the gun's value.

As for Oregon law stating a stolen firearm needs to be reported; that's 100% true. BUT an antique firearm is considered a non firearm by both Oregon law, and the BATF, so it requires no paperwork for transfer, and is exempt from modern firearms laws.

 

[Alexx1401]

Proof is pretty easy to prove. In my case I simply attached copies of our emails back and forth discussing the price, when I shipped it, and messages telling him how it shipped, and the tracking number. So there's plenty of history for a claim.
In the past all I did was copy my sales receipt showing what the buyer paid, and that was proof of value. Hard to dispute it's not worth a certain amount unless you insured it for more than it sold for.

Issues have arisen when there's damage, as USPS wants "replacement cost estimates" so finding say a replacement stock for a gun from 1885 is almost impossible, and having one built to match can cost more than the gun's value.

As for Oregon law stating a stolen firearm needs to be reported; that's 100% true. BUT an antique firearm is considered a non firearm by both Oregon law, and the BATF, so it requires no paperwork for transfer, and is exempt from modern firearms laws.

So then "value" to the USPS is ok by two people saying this is what they were willing to pay. Sounds pretty easy then. Seemed strange to me that the PO would sell insurance, then if they lost something tell you they were not going to pay out for what you paid for since they do charge according to what you cover I have to guess?

 

[Member 38805]

So then "value" to the USPS is ok by two people saying this is what they were willing to pay. Sounds pretty easy then. Seemed strange to me that the PO would sell insurance, then if they lost something tell you they were not going to pay out for what you paid for since they do charge according to what you cover I have to guess?

As I mentioned, it's not usually an issue for USPS to pay out for a total loss due to theft or simply lost packages, if you show proof of how much it sold for, and it's the same as the insured amount. They even add what you paid for shipping, so you don't lose those monies. In previous lost package claims I simply attached sales receipts, and they matched my insured price, and USPS sent the check.
The issue of claims questioned is when there's partial damage that doesn't come to a total value lost. Then you have to try to get them to pay for repairs, which they often dispute. They want to see a quote for a replacement part, or part and labor. So that can be impossible if the item is older and there are no off the shelf parts you can buy to replace damaged parts.