Discussion in 'Handgun Discussion' started by Pandaz3, Jul 28, 2012.
Sticking to their guns: Marines place $22.5M order for the Colt .45 M1911 | Fox News
I just did the math about $1875 per gun including the spare parts
Where does it say they are replacing the M9? It does read as if the pistols are going to special forces. Also there is another thread on hear already covering this topic with the same article quoted.
I may have misread it as for it being posted, I looked in handguns and general discussion and didn't see it. I don't live in these forums.
Understandable, probably should have kept my mouth shut but at the very least you maybe able to search it out and find some other opinions on it the subject.
they must plan on using those guns against civilians or other unarmored targets because the .45 bullet bounces right off body armor like throwing a rock at a tank
As do most other handgun rounds, except maybe the 5.7 with armor piercing ammo which isn't available to the general public.
I would feel much better carrying 18-19 round of 9mm, than carrying 8-9 round of .45acp in combat zone.
Not if your ammo was standard NATO ball as our military is required to carry...
They need to carry Glocks..... reliable and you can have "high capacity" mags. And you know Glocks take a beating and keep on ticking. This should piss off the 1911 guys lol.
When it comes to getting things like armor piercing rounds, or explosives, or full-auto weapons - you'll find the Marine Corp, and other branches of the military aren't really considered "the general public."
Haji doesn't wear body armor...
And Charlie doesn't surf......
Special forces can probably handle more than 1 control and an exposed hammer without going into an autistic frenzy.
But the Glock 21 still carries nearly twice the ammo, and while they don't have 100 years of use, they do stand up to punishment as well as the 1911. I love a good 1911, and that SA trigger is sweet, but in CQB, the rounds out of a glock 21 are still going to be as potent as the 1911.
Or, if you want more than 1 control and an exposed hammer (totally understand), than why not an FN .45? Still have the big .45ACP, but 15 rounds. I get that Colt is a respected USA based manufacturer, the FN .45 is still made in the US. I think it's cool that the 1911 will see active military service again. But when you're paying for the firearm, the other guy has twice the rounds in the magazine that you do, will you care that you have a time honored firearm in your hand?
It does not really matter how many rounds a Glock magazine holds. In the event that you need to deploy your pistol, after a couple rounds have been fired, you are on the deck, he is on the deck, you are going riki-tik to a hard point, or a combination of the mentioned is occuring. At no time are you going to stand around and fire your entire pistol magazine because it holds a couple more rounds - that is for movies or for people who want to make themselves cannon fodder..
Define potent. The trigger is far better in a 1911 than a Glock (no matter what you do to the Glock trigger) and much faster. The 1911 also has less flip which means you can put more rounds down range and on target in a shorter amount of time. 1911 ergonomics are hands down the best of any auto pistol. When you are sweaty, bloody, disoriented, and your motor skills have gone caveman in a fire fight, ergonomics matter.
The 1911 was never taken out of service. It was supplimented by the M9, not replaced. These are new 1911's for Marines in MEU's, Recon, MARSOC etc.
The Marine Corps has many 1911's that have over 500,000 rounds on their slides/receivers. I am not aware of any Glock that has seen that many rounds.
The Marine Corps made their choice based on performance and reliabilty, then cost.
The, "Argument" about the external safety holds no water. If you hold the gun properly your hand your thumb rests naturally on top of the safety. If you cannot sweep the safety you are holding the gun incorrectly.
I have an fn 45 usg, fine pistol. I do find the fn to be a bit heavy when fully loaded. If I find myself going into an autisic frenzy, I may need the extra ammo. It's so much harder to hit a target in such a state.
I do believe that the first two or three rounds are the ones that count, and that a handgun only buys you enough time to bring a long gun into play. Our armed forces only fight in groups, with long guns as primary weapons.The idea of a lone gunman (with a pistol) going face to face with a group of combatants is ludicrous, perpeptuated by popular fiction and entertainment. In such a situation a handgun would be last weapon regardless of capacity that anyone would want.
I personally consider a pistol to be a weapon of last resort in a combat situation. But, if you are going to pick one the 1911 is an excellent choice, I would rather have one in a last ditch effort than any other.
Of course in the time honored tradition of the military pistol, when used to execute traitors, deserters and spies the 1911 (or any pistol) will work just fine.
Here's the big thing too, Glock is made in Austria, and the 1911 is made in the USA. With the way the economy is now days, we need as much as possible made here at home. Don't get me wrong, the Glock is a good, reliable pistol, but it is what it is and not American made nor an American company.
I would have loved to have a 1911 with 9 rounds (8+1) over the POS M9 I had. The M9 is a heavy pig that is very hard to maintain in the field if/when something breaks. Too many small parts and springs to deal with. The "moon dust" sand that is all over in Iraq and Afghanistan loves to work its way into the mechanism and mix with the lube to jam it up. The 1911 is simple to pull apart and clean every part with little effort. The trigger is also stupid long, heavy, and scratchy. The retarded slide mounted safety gets in the way when you need to clear a jam, and you usually activate it when you rack the slide to clear said jam.
Not all of the test guns did well. Here is an article from soldier systems : Test Article Photos of MARSOC Winning Colt Rail Guns - Soldier Systems
I hope the ones given to Marines go the distance.
If you're in a situation where you are down to your sidearm against someone wearing body armor, you have much, much bigger problems already going for you...you're only way out is aiming "outside the armor".
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