Use of OC: Good or Bad?

ma96782

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Oh sure. But they will still give you the max available if they don't like you, instead of finding you "not guilty" based on the laws.
Who knows what's occurring (what's spinning the wheels) in the mind of a JUDGE?

Remember back awhile ago?

A conviction for say Assault (depending on the degree) could land someone in "the calaboose" for say 1 day to maybe years (or maybe just a house arrest). Whatever.

But then.....
Some people said that you can't depend on a judge to meter out punishment. Because the judge is a racist (see how many POC go to the calaboose vs. the white guys).

So the guidelines were put in place. Now, the judge for fear of being called a racist.....will strictly follow the guidelines.

Better? I don't know. But it seems to me, that the job of a Judge just got a whole lot easier than before.

So now a days.....
IF, it's the first time the defendant was convicted. Rrrright....all those other times where nothing burgers. Yeah, the charges were pled out, dropped, DAG, diverted, whatever.... So.....the Judge today has probably little to no say on a sentence. Only the convictions matter. And....only "certain" convictions matter.

OK, let's fix that......
Let's make some laws a bigger offense. Let's call them, "Racially Motivated Crimes"? Or, if/when sentencing someone.....we'll add on a couple of years and call it "enhanced sentencing".

Really?

But under he old system.....the judge could see the nature of the crime, the defendant's attitude, record, etc.... and just do his job. Leave it to the judge.....the sentence would/could be longer for heinous crimes and/or people that needed to be held for longer. It was a judgement call. Humm.....judge....judgement call. Oh, I get why it's call that now.

But then (even if someone got) five years.....it doesn't actually mean five years. Rrrright....the prison system will probably cut the time down too. Rrrright....for good behavior, he's sorry now, there's too many people here, covid concerns, he saw the Lord, etc...etc...

Additionally.....
Have you ever taken note of the number of "racially motivated" crime charges that are brought against White people? And compare that against the number of POC that are charged? Then ever wonder why.....what appears to be a racially motivated crime to some. Isn't charged as such?

STOP, Stop, stop. Don't, just don't....go there anymore. :s0123: The crowd is marching and creating mayhem again outside the court house. People inside are getting nervous. The "peaceful protesters" (aka: riotous crown) is/are shouting.....

No Justice. No Peace.

Aloha, Mark
 
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bbbass

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Who knows what's occurring (what's spinning the wheels) in the mind of a JUDGE?

Remember back awhile ago?

A conviction for say Assault (depending on the degree) could land someone in "the calaboose" for say 1 day to maybe years (or maybe just a house arrest). Whatever.

But then.....
Some people said that you can't depend on a judge to meter out punishment. Because the judge is a racist (see how many POC go to the calaboose vs. the white guys).

So the guidelines were put in place. Now, the judge for fear of being called a racist.....will strictly follow the guidelines.

Better? I don't know. But it seems to me, that the job of a Judge just got a whole lot easier than before.

So now a days.....
IF, it's the first time the defendant was convicted. Rrrright....all those other times where nothing burgers. Yeah, the charges were pled out, dropped, DAG, diverted, whatever.... So.....the Judge today has probably little to no say on a sentence. Only the convictions matter.

OK, let's fix that......
Let's make some laws a bigger offense. Let's call them, "Racially Motivated Crimes"? Or, if/when sentencing someone.....we'll add on a couple of years and call it "enhanced sentencing".

Really?

But under he old system.....the judge could see the nature of the crime, the defendant's attitude, record, etc.... and just do his job. Leave to the judge.....the sentence would/could be longer for heinous crimes and/or people that needed to be held for longer. It was a judgement call. Humm.....judge....judgement call. Oh, I get why it's call that now.

But then (even if someone got) five years doesn't actually mean five years. Rrrright....the prison system will probably cut the time down too. Rrrright....for good behavior, he's sorry now, there's too many people here, covid concerns, he saw the Lord, etc...etc...

Additionally.....
Have you ever taken note of the number of "racially motivated" crime charges that are brought against White people? And compare that against the number of POC that are charged? Then ever wonder why.....what appears to be a racially motivated crime to some. Isn't charged as such?

STOP, Stop, stop. Don't, just don't....go there anymore. :s0123: The crowd is marching and creating mayhem again outside the court house. Shouting.....

No Justice. No Peace.

Aloha, Mark
:s0137:

Yeah, I can see your against sentencing guidelines. Not going to go there with you. Let me just say that IMO the only thing Biden ever did right was the megacrime bill, which IMO was needed at that time.

Who knows what's in the minds of judges? Just follow what they say... they are not shy about their proclamations.
 

ma96782

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Hummmm.....the Police used tear gas to disburse the "peaceful protesters" (aka: riotous crowd). Rrrright......think of the property damage, looting, arson, assaults, etc... etc.... And the Police took a lot of flack for it.

Wasn't there a call to investigate the Police and wasn't there talk of banning it's usage

What did the Mayor say about that?

Portland Mayor's Ban on Use of Tear Gas Has Officers Livid (pjmedia.com)

And now.....
We got the Mayor using OC. No real assault or direct threat of physical violence. But.....it's a clear cut case of "self defense"? :s0092:

Aloha, Mark
 
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Yeah....it's OK to have a different opinion.

Aloha, Mark
Sentencing guidelines do a lot to ensure equal application of the law and keeps the prosecution from coercing guilty pleas more than they do. I know a man who was an young staff sergeant at Fort Lewis who went to the movies. That night, the ticket booth was robbed by a black man. He was a black man and was apprehended in the parking lot. He said he didn’t do it. 1 of the 2 ticket booth attendants picked him out of a lineup. He maintained his innocence and took it to trial. He got 304 months for robbery. 25 years. With good conduct time, he only had to serve 17 years. To put that in perspective, after determinate sentencing became the law, the standard sentence for Murder 2nd is 192 months.
 

ma96782

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Sentencing guidelines do a lot to ensure equal application of the law and keeps the prosecution from coercing guilty pleas more than they do. I know a man who was an young staff sergeant at Fort Lewis who went to the movies. That night, the ticket booth was robbed by a black man. He was a black man and was apprehended in the parking lot. He said he didn’t do it. 1 of the 2 ticket booth attendants picked him out of a lineup. He maintained his innocence and took it to trial. He got 304 months for robbery. 25 years. With good conduct time, he only had to serve 17 years. To put that in perspective, after determinate sentencing became the law, the standard sentence for Murder 2nd is 192 months.
Well.....it's possible.....that it's a case of misidentification. Though.....I'd guess that he would have to appeal his conviction. OK, yeah....it costs money and etc.... etc.... There are plenty of reasons why some people get a raw deal in life.

Justice is not always perfect.

Then....speaking about 192 months for 2nd-degree Murder.

Yeah.....the other person is DEAD. Now.....let that sink in.

Aloha, Mark
 
Well.....it's possible.....that it's a case of misidentification. Though.....I'd guess that he would have to appeal his conviction. OK, yeah....it costs money and etc.... etc.... There are plenty of reasons why some people get a raw deal in life.

Justice is not always perfect.

Then....speaking about 192 months for 2nd-degree Murder.

Yeah.....the other person is DEAD. Now.....let that sink in.

Aloha, Mark
So, the question is, does indeterminate sentencing allow for a disproportionate response to a crime compared to a more serious offense due to factors other than the crime?


Yep.
 

ma96782

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So, the question is, does indeterminate sentencing allow for a disproportionate response to a crime compared to a more serious offense due to factors other than the crime?


Yep.

So everything before "sentencing guidelines" was a farce of the principle of "Justice is Blind"?

Lady_Justice.jpg

Hummmm......
People are and have always been, prone to failures. That included Judges. Yup.....there are also dirty Judges. But thankfully....dirty Judges are probably in the minority of them.

Note: that statutes are usually not so wide as you might think. Example: If convicted of Assault 1st, the possible time that one could serve is stated, usually ___ to ___ years.

If convicted of Assault 3rd the time that one could serve is usually stated as "up to ____ days".

So, it's not like the judge will say you're guilty of Assault 3rd and you will be sent to prison for 5 years (even if the judge was thinking because you're Black).

Thas_NOT_how_this_works.jpg

But as I've already said......

"Yeah.....it's OK to have a different opinion."

Aloha, Mark
 
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So everything before "sentencing guidelines" was a farce of the principle of "Justice is Blind"?

View attachment 814770

Hummmm......
People are and have always been, prone to failures. That included Judges. Yup.....there are also dirty Judges. But thankfully....dirty Judges are probably in the minority of them.

Note: that statutes are usually not so wide as you might think. Example: If convicted of Assault 1st, the possible time that one could serve is stated, usually ___ to ___ years.

If convicted of Assault 3rd the time that one could serve is usually stated as "up to ____ days".

So, it's not like the judge will say you're guilty of Assault 3rd and you will be sent to prison for 5 years (even if the judge was thinking because you're Black).

View attachment 814771

But as I've already said......

"Yeah.....it's OK to have a different opinion."

Aloha, Mark
Just what I’ve seen over 16 years dealing with judges and understanding the sentence reform act.
 

ma96782

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You also got me thinking about CHARGES.

Huh?

So, let's say that the person robbed that ticket counter.

Example:
Did he use a gun to do it?
Robbery while armed with a deadly weapon. Add that extra separate charge.
Was it a semi-auto handgun?
Yup....let's add that separate extra charge.
Was it a stolen gun? etc.... etc....

YES....it depends on how the laws of that State are written. And how the prosecutor feels.

So then, one simple act of Robbery and the time can quickly add up.

Think about that Robbery vs Murder times.

Then.....time to be served.....consecutive or concurrently? Yeah....depending on who's the judge.....the book could really be thrown at the guy.

Aloha, Mark
 

bbbass

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So, the question is, does indeterminate sentencing allow for a disproportionate response to a crime compared to a more serious offense due to factors other than the crime?
The whole discussion of Judging/sentencing is IMO off-topic and I don't want to get too far into it. So ALL I am going to say on sentencing guidelines is that both over and under sentencing were happening prior to sentencing reform demands BY THE PUBLIC and also the 3 strikes laws which some people like and some don't. In my area, chimos and chi-porners were being let off with 1yr probation and maybe a no-contact order. While others were being sentenced to 5yrs for stealing a bagel. People got fed up with judges being so inconsistent and justice not being applied equally. So in reality, that the people took their discretion away should fall back on the low quality of the judges themselves. And I really don't think that has changed at all. Our local Judge Mendiguren presided over the murder trial of the photog gal that killed her airline pilot husband... he was so enamored of not only the press and Court TV coverage, but also of the defendant. She was only found guilty because her computer history showed that she had searches for ways to kill and get away with it. Mendiguren had kind word for her and gave her a minimum sentence. I know the guy... he is a fool. Most other local judges I know are complete azzholes that think they are god. And at least one is very corrupt, sending people to jail/prison and then buying up their property for rentals.

And that's not even getting started on Soros DAs!!!
 

bbbass

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Yeah....it's OK to have a different opinion.

Aloha, Mark
Thx, but I can't debate on your level anymore. I no longer have the ability to focus to read long posts either. And tho being off-topic is generally OK with me, I don't want to get too far into the weeds.
 
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Sounds like the guy is preparing a lawsuit against Ted.

"Cadonau told the local NBC station that he is seeking a copy of the Mayor’s receipt because it could provide evidence that Ted Wheeler was intoxicated at the time. Cadonau says he wants the authorities to hold Cadonau responsible. He hired another local lawyer, Mara Woloshin, to represent him in this matter."

 

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