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UPS and FedEx boycott the 80% "Ghost Gunner" mill

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by IronMonster, Feb 26, 2015.

  1. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    http://www.theverge.com/2015/2/26/8113047/fedex-ups-wont-ship-ghost-gunner-mill.

    Two of America's largest courier services are refusing to ship a digital milling machine sold by firearms advocacy group Defense Distributed. The non-profit, best known for creating the world's first 3D-printed handgun, began selling its $1,500 Ghost Gunner in October last year as a way of helping Americans "legally manufacture unserialized firearms in the comfort of [their] own home."

    Although the Ghost Gunner has no more functionality than similar CNC mills on the market, Defense Distributed's founder Cody Wilson reported earlier this week that FedEx was refusing to ship the machine, with UPS confirming to Wired that it had followed suit. Wilson told the magazine that the companies were expressing a "political preference" and that there was nothing "specifically related to firearms" about the machine "except the hocus pocus of the marketing."

    The Ghost Gunner isn't illegal to own — neither are the guns it helps make

    The Ghost Gunner isn't illegal to own or operate and is sold with the express purpose of creating untraceable, semi-automatic 'ghost guns.' The site says that customers can simply "plug GhostGunner into [their] computer, install our software" and then start manufacturing from the design files, all of which are in the public domain. It adds that "no prior CNC knowledge or experience is required."

    Users can buy a semi-finished lower receiver for an AR-15 (the civilian version of the military's M-16 assault rifle), mill it to completion with the Ghost Gunner in a matter of hours, and then order the rest of the parts online and assemble the gun at home.

    The lower receiver is the focus of attention here because it is the component that legally constitutes a firearm in the US. This means it's controlled by federal regulations and sold with traceable serial numbers. However, selling semi-finished lower receivers and assembling unserialized weapons is completely legal. Enthusiasts have been creating their own lower receivers for years, but 3D-printing machines and cheap, computer-controlled mills are making this process more accessible than ever before.

    In a statement given to Wired magazine, FedEx explained its reasons for the ban. "This device is capable of manufacturing firearms, and potentially by private individuals," said the company. "We are uncertain at this time whether this device is a regulated commodity by local, state, or federal governments. As such, to ensure we comply with the applicable law and regulations, FedEx declined to ship this device until we know more about how it will be regulated."

    UPS echoed these sentiments, saying that it "reserves the right to refuse to provide transportation service for, among other reasons, any shipments that create legal, safety or operational concerns." It added that the company was "continuing to evaluate such concerns with regard to the transportation of milling machines used to produce operable firearms but, at this point in time, will not accept such devices for transportation."

    "the constitutionally protected right to make a rifle free from government surveillance."

    In an email to Defense Distributed's supporters published by Ars Technica, Wilson stated that after the FedEx ban he was determined to keep selling the Ghost Gunner. "I will find another way to ship the machine," he wrote. "I emailed today because I feel you should know that FedEx is uncomfortable with the constitutionally protected right to make a rifle free from government surveillance." He added that although the firm caters to the firearms industry (FedEx is a member of the National Rifle Association's Business Alliance) it has "a specific antipathy to the non-commercial acquisition of firearms."

    Incidents like this underscore the fact that although US gun law is some of the most scrutinized in the world, there will always be disagreements between what companies and individuals believe is legal and what they believe is right. Wilson and his supporters think that what they are doing is both, but corporations are obviously not so sure.
     
  2. GUNARCHER

    GUNARCHER Well-Known Member

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    what if they refused to sell it to a gay person???

    Or Fedx and UPS refused to ship to a gay person??
     
  3. John H

    John H Whatcom County Well-Known Member

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    Must be pressure being applied by the Obama Administration ??
     
  4. Morpheus

    Morpheus Columbia Gorge Anyway, back on the farm.

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    Well, guy is trying to make a very politically charged point in the way he is doing it.

    That said, it is stupid and hypocritical for FedEx and UPS to both do this type of BS.
     
  5. RicInOR

    RicInOR Washington County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I reject out of hand, and so should anyone else that the reason is *-ist
    ie Racist, sexist etc

    I also am not so sure about our President, or the administration, applying pressure, but rather I suspect it is his sycophants wanting to please their political party.
     
  6. RicInOR

    RicInOR Washington County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Now, how do they know?

    Does FedEx / UPS refuse to deliver the Anarchists Cookbook? Mein Kampf? White Robes?

    3d Printers?

    Super Computers? ( tongue in cheek, your current laptop is a super computer compared to what was available in 2000 )
     
    BoonDocks36 and 3MTA3 like this.
  7. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    Looks like it has spooked them enough to ban ammo now. It's going to get interesting...:D
     
  8. 3MTA3

    3MTA3 DMZ between Liberty and Tyranny Behind Enemy Lines Bronze Supporter

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    U201491 likes this.
  9. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    "太平" (níng wéi tàipíng quǎn, mò zuò luànshì rén) which conveys the sense that it is "better to live as a dog in an era of peace than a man in times of war."

    Not sure I agree with the Chinese on this one.
     
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  10. 3MTA3

    3MTA3 DMZ between Liberty and Tyranny Behind Enemy Lines Bronze Supporter

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    It is pretty relevant to our current political climate:

    To have peace, you must obey the authorities like a dog - if you wish to be a man you will need to stand up and fight.
     
  11. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I didn't mean to make the thread drift.:eek: The tool is no good without the 80% receivers?
     
  12. 3MTA3

    3MTA3 DMZ between Liberty and Tyranny Behind Enemy Lines Bronze Supporter

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    They wouldn't have had the issue if the product name had been different (Earth Friendly Eco Mill) and included programs for politically correct items like LGBT wedding cake statues, machetes to be used on infidels who violate Sharia Law, etc..
     
  13. GunnyG

    GunnyG The Highlands Active Member

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    .... I doubt that they should be handling shipping for any machine tools coming out of Grainger, Grizzly or even Harbor Freight since there are many a Paki gunsmith who can do just as well as a modern CNC machine shop, using only common hand tools. o_O
     
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  14. bolus

    bolus Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    "Box 'o Abortion Baby Blender*"
    *also makes receivers

    its not even available until later this year anyway. They will sort out the shipping by then.
     
  15. blackadder

    blackadder Everett Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    My first reaction to this was, "wtf, you are not sure?!" But then I remembered my family, and it makes me wonder what my trigger point will be.
     
  16. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    Take it easy everyone, FedEx and UPS are suspending receipt for shipment UNTIL they find out more about the legality of said machine. They don't ship "unsactioned" weed (yet), nor regulated explosives except from and to properly credentialed senders/receivers. It'll get sorted out.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2015
    NoFlinch and soberups like this.
  17. bolus

    bolus Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    The product isnt actually shipping at this time. So this seems more political or PR motivated. Why suspending shipping of a product that wont ship for another couple of quarters?

    Im sure if it was going to make them a lot of money they would not be saying anything. Like when Fedex got indicted this last year for suspicion of knowingly shipping from illegal online pharmacies because it was making them tons of money. I dont remember them saying they were going to stop that practice.
     
  18. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    Asshats come, and asshats go. What can ya do?
     
  19. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Actually my take on this is its old school marketing. FREE ADVERTIZING. what is the chance that I sitting in Silverton reading mostly Willys Jeep forums would ever know about this fancy CNC Milling machine? I would guess near zero. But because I read a couple of firearms forums and this got someone on a firearm forum wound up enough to make a post of it. And it popped up in NEW POSTS when I got here now I know.

    SO as you can see this falls into the same category as some stupid actor coming out as gay when everyone knew that for the last two decades.
     
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  20. John H

    John H Whatcom County Well-Known Member

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    Look at it this way, FREE ADVERTISEMENT