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UPDATED : U.N. Arms trade treaty talks and DC gun control

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Dave Workman, Jul 3, 2012.

  1. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    American gun rights advocates might thank the Palestinians and their supporters for delaying, until Tuesday afternoon, anyway, the start of the long-awaited Arms Trade Treaty (ATT) negotiations at the United Nations, although it leaves two key players from Washington State in a bit of a lurch.

    Palestinian status snit delays U.N. arms treaty talks - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com

    NEW July 6:


    Disarmed America: Tying U.N. treaty to D.C.’s 2A resistance

    The same political mindset that is pushing the United Nations Arms Trade Treaty (ATT) talks this month is also at work keeping residents of Washington, D.C. from exercising their Second Amendment rights, and one might suggest that Bellevue’s Alan Gottlieb is strongly linked to both quagmires.

    http://www.examiner.com/article/dis...treaty-to-d-c-s-2a-resistance?cid=db_articles
     
  2. Flyingswords

    Flyingswords Texas Active Member

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    Treaty or not, they aint taking my guns.
     
  3. Bigfoot

    Bigfoot Clack Co. OR Well-Known Member

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    What are the Palestinians worried about the fix is in. The UN put Hezbollah and Hamas arms supplier Iran in charge of the negotiating committee. Perfect, that's how the UN does things.

     
  4. DMax

    DMax Yamhill Well-Known Member

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  5. biggie24420

    biggie24420 Beaverton Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Let me make this clear and I don't give two sh*tz about the CIA or NSA or any other corrupted/mafia grup(s) that may monitor me or use what I say against me to NDAA me or whatever.....
    I WILL NEVER EVER REGISTER MY GUNS, I WILL NOT GIVE UP MY GUNS, YOU CAN HAVE MY AMMO FIRST!!!
    You can see the military already rolling down US streets... can anyone say marshal law? oh but they call it a "training".
    So if you have been watching the real news you can see that things are getting worse. They wanna take your guns so you don't have a way to fight for your privileges........ or as the sheep call it "RIGHTS".

    So be ready to walk the walk and talk the talk because if not
    All Aboard! Next Train To Auschwitz......Kiss Those Calories Goodbye! (Gerald Celente)
    TJspring2012cover.jpg
    Oh by the way.... I sold all my guns!
     
  6. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    That's good, the lakes and rivers are getting pretty full of guns what with all the boating accidents going on!!
     
  7. PDXoriginal

    PDXoriginal PNW Well-Known Member

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    I have a simple message for the UN and any crack head idealist member of our government that has forgotten what America is about.

    The US Constitution gives we the people the power to uphold and protect OUR rights and no government, not even our own can invalidate that. This especially goes for the UN, they can suck it, our Constitutional rights are NONE of their business. Anyone that messes with the Constitution, they are messing with America. They are a tyrant and their acts treasonous, as far as I am concerned they are no longer a recognizable authority.

    We're not nazi Germany, we're not communist China, we're not even the United Kingdom... we are the United States of America. We don't bow down to ANY ONE and we sure as hell won't surrender our arms without a fight. They can TRY to go door to door, but an army of men and women will be waiting. If firearm sales are any indication... that will be one well armed army.

    While politics and our government are broken, our Constitution isn't.... and if you got a problem with anything I just said, you can kiss my red, white, and blue butt.
     
  8. sandman1212

    sandman1212 NW Oregon Active Member

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    the first stage in making the citizens into slaves is to disarm them, me and mine WILL NOT BE SLAVES!!! they need to remember that incoming bullets have right of way...or not! I will not give up, register or confiscate firearms from my fellow firearms owners!
     
  9. Bigfoot

    Bigfoot Clack Co. OR Well-Known Member

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    All it would take for this treaty to take effect here is the Senate ratifies it, the same Senate that rammed Obamacare through. Think the Roberts Court has the stones to buck liberal media pressure and overturn it?

    I can't help but notice the Obama apologists are absent here. No nuts? Your messiah has been pushing this treaty and promises that he will sign it (shocker). Tell us again how THE ONE hasn't done anything to restrict the 2nd A. Tell us again how wrong we were.

    Hello!

    Represent!

    I do believe that some of you actually own guns. Lets see if your Constitutional freedoms are more important to you than politics. Or are you going to show off those well developed cognitive dissident abilities again.

    Meh. I suspect the latter, again.
     
    Ownerus and (deleted member) like this.
  10. BSG 75

    BSG 75 Oregon Well-Known Member

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    You're wrong, and those who know anything about the Constitution aren't getting hysterical about this treaty. However, apparently there are some gun owners who are easily manipulated into paranoia by politicians and activists who are cynically using those gun owners for their own purposes.

    We don't have to worry about the Roberts Supreme Court because the supremacy of the Constitution over treaties and executive agreements has been settled law for 55 years.

    The Constitution, including the Second Amendment, can't be nullified by any treaty or executive agreement.

    Representin'! :laugh:
     
    Doctnt, TJdamon, fd15k and 3 others like this.
  11. DMax

    DMax Yamhill Well-Known Member

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    This may explain a few things beside give you a chance to sign the petition against.

    Don't forget the Lame Duck where all things are possible. Even though show me 1 thing bho has done to take away 2A rights is the other sides cry. Do you trust the other side Will Do Ya?


    D-Day For Gun Control at DickMorris.com
     
  12. BSG 75

    BSG 75 Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Former Bill Clinton operative Dick Morris and John Bolton are two (former) politicians and political activists spreading nonsense for their own cynical political reasons in an election year.

    All things are not possible if they go against the Constitution.
     
  13. JackThompson

    JackThompson Valley of the Demons Well-Known Member

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    While I would like to share your optimism, it's not a direct "Guns are now illegal, we'll be by to pick them up tomorrow" type thing.

    I fear a "Guns are legal, in your home. 1 per household. For hunting. .22 caliber will suffice, otherwise you are a psychopath murderer"

    When dealing with the devil, don't trust the contract.


     
  14. DMax

    DMax Yamhill Well-Known Member

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    How does a democrate controlled congress in the senate that can radify this treaty go against the Constitution in a lame duck session with nothing to loose not be possible. Not seeing the possiblity is just living in denial period. If you don't see this then nothing is possible we will just wait and see then complain when it happens. Opps too late
     
  15. BSG 75

    BSG 75 Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Again, see my above post regarding Reid v. Covert. Even if the treaty is ratified (questionable) it is trumped by the Second Amendment. The treaty's effect on the Second Amendment would be - as Rush Limbaugh would say - Zilch. Zero. Nada. Don't be used by political operatives who are secretly smirking and laughing at how easily some gun owners fall for their manipulation and fear-mongering.
     
  16. BSG 75

    BSG 75 Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The anti-gun rights forces don't need that treaty to push for that nonsense, they are already trying. Since that treaty - if ratified - would have no effect against the Second Amendment it doesn't help them.

    The Constitution, the Supreme Court (with DC v Heller and McDonald v Chicago), and most importantly the American people Record-Low 26% in U.S. Favor Handgun Ban support gun rights in America.
     
  17. DMax

    DMax Yamhill Well-Known Member

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    Ya the supreme court worked out pretty well with the unafordable care act as constitutional under a new word Tax. Thier is always a way given a chance and I say why give them any chance or moving thier line in the sand closer.
     
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  18. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    Well then, lets consider a few aspects of this treaty.
    Just a couple that I believe concern many here.
    First off, is the ammunition restrictions. I am a reloader, which, under the definition(s) of this treaty, means I am an ammunition manufacturer.

    Now, the 2ndA, nor the FOPA, says nothing about whether or not I must be registered as such before I can buy components or tools to reload. Want a new case trimmer? Well you must be registered first! Want to try those new Berger bullets? Sign right here son,...

    Secondly, a 200-300% tax on ammo and components to track my purchases, registration, and requests for my "ammo on hand" quantities, would be about par for the course, to pay for this new bureaucracy.
    Sound like something the U.N. might want? The Brady org? It does to me!
    Does this violate my right to keep and bear? NOPE!

    Then there is the FACT that most, or at least many, powders that we buy, regardless of brand, are not made in the US. As a component used to "manufacture" ammunition, it will be heavily regulated, and tracked under compliance with this treaty.
    The paperwork nightmare for suppliers may well be enough to discourage many retailers, curtailing my ability to acquire components.
    Does this violate the 2ndA? Nope!
    The same goes for bullets, brass etc. I know many reloaders and match shooters like Norma brass and bullets.
    Made in Finland and exportation to the US would be regulated/restricted under the terms of the ATT.
    And taxed to pay for their tracking.
    Does THIS infringe on my RtKBA? Nope, not by strict definition!

    Then there is the weapon/parts/components/assembly portion(s) of the treaty.
    Want to mount a new scope on the new rifle? Need new mounts? Rings?
    How about new sling swivels.
    Maybe you want to upgrade the bottom metal on your Savage.
    Or, heaven forbid you want to build a new AR with that cool lower you bought awhile back.

    Well, then it's time for you to belly up to the ATF's new system of gun manufacturer's registration database, and pay the fees, and let them know you are an arms manufacturer.
    Requiring this would not violate The Constitution, because you would still have the right to keep and bear what you had built.
    And the ATF will be required to let the U.N. know how many manufacturers there are in the US, and how many guns a year are being built.

    But how does the government pay for this new bureaucracy? How does it track all these builders and parts/component sales?
    Why, with a tax on said components/parts of course! And fees for licensing before parts can be bought.

    Why do so many in the gun world NOT CONSIDER the cost of compliance with crapola like this?
    The myriad of laws and regulations that could/would be spawned out of ratification and compliance with this treaty is MIND BOGGLING.
    And whether or not they "infringe" on one's right to "keep and bear" will need to be settled in the SCOTUS.

    And we all know how the SCOTUS feels about the government's "power to tax" lately don't we?

    So wise up, people.
    The U.N has virtually NO RESPECT for The Constitution, the 2ndA, or our dotgov's recognition of it.
    They want to track, control and restrict guns, ammunition and the sales of both.
    And if you think for a minute that the 2ndA will protect you from the scenarios I presented above, then you are absolutely clueless about how our government works.


    Please, conservatives and liberals, write your Senators NOW! And remind them that you are a gun owner, and that you can vote for their opponent next time, as easily as you voted for them last time.
    And that whether or not they vote for ratification of the U.N. ATT will be a deciding factor.
     
  19. BSG 75

    BSG 75 Oregon Well-Known Member

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    If you don't have a FFL type 6 or 10 you aren't an ammunition manufacturer. Next.

    Since you aren't an ammunition manufacturer, the above is nonsense. Next.

    Any "paperwork nightmare" for component manufacturers - which is pure speculation at this point - would not directly affect retailers. You're really grasping at straws with that one. Next.

    I have reloaded with Lapua bullets from Finland. Do you seriously believe those bullets aren't being taxed and regulated already, just like any other import? Next.

    Now you're just being silly. No international treaty is going to prevent someone in Oregon from mounting a scope or any other accessories on their firearm. Next.

    Um, putting a scope on your rifle doesn't make you an "arms manufacturer". Next.


    Oh wait, I get it now. You're just pulling my leg, right? ha ha, you really had me there for a moment. I thought you were serious earlier, but the above is so ridiculous you must be kidding, right? Right? :paranoid:
     
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  20. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    Now we're getting dissent from someone who hasn't read up on points of the treaty!

    The very definition of what constitutes gun and ammunition manufacturing can be changed to reflect compliance with this treaty.
    If you think for a minute that the cost of compliance with the stipulations of this treaty will come from our already cash-strapped existing budget, you are living a fairy tale.

    What part of that is so difficult for you liberal mouthpiece types to understand?
     
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