Unsafe Beeman QB78 .22

[Mike97124]

I bought a Gamo .22 break barrel pellet gun a couple of weeks ago that I've been using to try to thin out the rat population that have made a home in my back yard and under my ground level decking at the end of my patio, thanks to the neighbor behind us that decided to raise chickens a few years ago and they have migrated across the fence into our yard. Since our Bouvier Ratters haven't been able to keep up with them, the older wiser ones ignore my traps and I do not want to use poison because of our dogs, I decided to try a pellet gun.

The first one I got was the Gamo and first day I had it, I got several. Very accurate and does the job. The problem is it's louder than I like and the scope it came with is fuzzy and I can't get it focused. I can still hit with it during the day but at night with just the porch light on, it's just to fuzzy to get a good aim. I bought a new scope and it's great, nice and clear... the problem is I can't zero it in. I run out of up MOA before it's zeroed in by about an 1" at the 30' or so I'm shooting. I tried shimming but I was afraid I was putting to much stress on the scope tube and I didn't want to spend another $60 or so and buy a slanted rail or the Burris Signature ring kit with multiple +MOA ring inserts. After all, I just wanted to buy a inexpensive (not necessarily cheap) pellet gun to kill rats.

After messing with it and missing rats when I stayed up after dark, I decided to get a new pellet gun. Since the break barrel was loud I decided to try a CO2 rifle this time. After doing some research I decided on the Beeman QB78 .22 caliber CO2 rifle without a scope. That put it under $100 and I already had a good scope to use and I was hoping I'd be able to zero it in on this rifle.

I got the rifle in today and got it all ready to test fire per the instructions. I mounted my scope and went to try it out for the first time. This is when the unsafe part comes in. I had dry fired it a couple of times to make sure it charged up and then I put the first pellet in. I flicked off the safety and took aim at the target and pulled the trigger. Except it didn't fire. The trigger felt like the safety was still on so I turned it on it's side and took a look. I found the safety had only gone half way and stopped even with the trigger rail and not up against the stock like it was supposed to (I found what it was supposed to do later).

So I pushed the safety lever the rest of the way and the rifle fired the pellet without any of my fingers near the trigger or even in side the trigger guard. I was so glad I still had the rifle pointing in the general direction of the target. It didn't hit the target but it didn't go much past it either. I couldn't believe that pushing the safety would cause the rifle to fire. And even though it is only a pellet gun, it's still dangerous and someone could have gotten hurt. I also felt the same way had it been one of my real guns that had gone off like that and I had to put the rifle down for a bit.

A little bit later with no pellet in it I took a look and saw where the safety lever was suppose to snap all the way up against the stock when it was pushed but it was stopping about 50% of the time at the trigger guard.

I was able to repeat what happened dry firing. What I found was that with the rifle cocked and the safety on I could bring it up to aim, flip the safety up pull the trigger and it not fire if the safety was half way. If I pushed the safety forward the rest of the way (all fingers clear of the trigger) it would fire. I did this 5 times in a row. If I didn't pull the trigger before making sure the lever was all the way to the fire position (if it stuck half way), it would only fire if I pulled the trigger like normal, If the safety was on and I pulled the trigger it would not fire and it didn't fire if I flicked the safety all the way to the fire position.

Evidently there is a spot that when the safety level lands there and the trigger is pulled but it doesn't fire, moving the safety level the rest of the way fires the rifle. Very scary.

I did find when I dry fired about 20 times to empty the CO2 canisters so I could box it back up that it stopped sticking at the half way point and even if I stopped it at the half way and pulled the trigger, it did not fire when I pushed the lever the rest of the way. I do not know if this means it has to have two fresh CO2 canisters for this to happen or if the safety lever needed a lot of moving from safe to fire and back during my tests and dry firing it to loosen up so it didn't fall on that one particular spot. To me it doesn't matter, I consider the gun unsafe and it's going back to Amazon after shooting just one pellet out of it. I didn't even go ahead and see if my scope could be zeroed in on the new rifle.

I do like the CO2 better than the break barrel though. At least I found that out. So I'm going to return the Gamo as well and look at some of the German pellet guns Hammerli. They cost more, but hopefully I will get a lot better gun as well. So the rats get a reprieve for a bit. I just hope the dogs can take up some of the slack of controlling them.

Mike

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[turq]

Might try looking at the tko22 silencers and buy a rifle for the one you like.
Maybe you could "bait" the rats to a free meal put a led red light head lamp on the pan of food and be better able to kill 'me all.
Keep us posted.

 

[daved20319]

I got the rifle in today and got it all ready to test fire per the instructions. I mounted my scope and went to try it out for the first time. This is when the unsafe part comes in. I had dry fired it a couple of times to make sure it charged up and then I put the first pellet in. I flicked off the safety and took aim at the target and pulled the trigger. Except it didn't fire. The trigger felt like the safety was still on so I turned it on it's side and took a look. I found the safety had only gone half way and stopped even with the trigger rail and not up against the stock like it was supposed to (I found what it was supposed to do later).

So I pushed the safety lever the rest of the way and the rifle fired the pellet without any of my fingers near the trigger or even in side the trigger guard. I was so glad I still had the rifle pointing in the general direction of the target. It didn't hit the target but it didn't go much past it either. I couldn't believe that pushing the safety would cause the rifle to fire. And even though it is only a pellet gun, it's still dangerous and someone could have gotten hurt. I also felt the same way had it been one of my real guns that had gone off like that and I had to put the rifle down for a bit.

A little bit later with no pellet in it I took a look and saw where the safety lever was suppose to snap all the way up against the stock when it was pushed but it was stopping about 50% of the time at the trigger guard.

I was able to repeat what happened dry firing. What I found was that with the rifle cocked and the safety on I could bring it up to aim, flip the safety up pull the trigger and it not fire if the safety was half way. If I pushed the safety forward the rest of the way (all fingers clear of the trigger) it would fire. I did this 5 times in a row. If I didn't pull the trigger before making sure the lever was all the way to the fire position (if it stuck half way), it would only fire if I pulled the trigger like normal, If the safety was on and I pulled the trigger it would not fire and it didn't fire if I flicked the safety all the way to the fire position.

Evidently there is a spot that when the safety level lands there and the trigger is pulled but it doesn't fire, moving the safety level the rest of the way fires the rifle. Very scary.

I did find when I dry fired about 20 times to empty the CO2 canisters so I could box it back up that it stopped sticking at the half way point and even if I stopped it at the half way and pulled the trigger, it did not fire when I pushed the lever the rest of the way. I do not know if this means it has to have two fresh CO2 canisters for this to happen or if the safety lever needed a lot of moving from safe to fire and back during my tests and dry firing it to loosen up so it didn't fall on that one particular spot. To me it doesn't matter, I consider the gun unsafe and it's going back to Amazon after shooting just one pellet out of it. I didn't even go ahead and see if my scope could be zeroed in on the new rifle.

I do like the CO2 better than the break barrel though. At least I found that out. So I'm going to return the Gamo as well and look at some of the German pellet guns Hammerli. They cost more, but hopefully I will get a lot better gun as well. So the rats get a reprieve for a bit. I just hope the dogs can take up some of the slack of controlling them.

Mike

Unfortunately, this has long been an issue with the QB 78 rifles, going back years, and is a major reason that I tended to remove the safety on most of the QB's I've owned over the years. It also makes it a lot easier taking the action out of the stock, which is necessary to adjust the trigger. The trigger design dates back to the days of crossbows, it's effective, cheap, and can be made very nice, but there's no sear reset if you start pulling the trigger. Most of this issue is adjustment and/or break in, it's most common on new guns, but certainly not something that happens with all of them. Too bad it's left a bad taste in your mouth, the QB 78 family of rifles are wonderful guns, and a tinkerers dream. They can be extremely accurate, can be modified to make lots of power with nothing more than basic hand tools, and are one of the only inexpensive air rifles that are still mostly wood and steel. They're also a very flexible starting point, I've turned one into a pistol, and another into a poor man's PCP over the years, just to name a couple. If you're interested in giving it a second chance, I'd be happy to walk you through some of the tuning steps and trigger adjustments.

One note on air guns and noise, especially with springers. They seem much louder than they really are, simply because all the noise is happening right next to your ears, and is amplified by bone conduction. The synthetic stocks only make it worse, as they're hollow. Most folks are amazed at how quiet they actually are when someone else shoots it and they can step back a few yards. Gas guns tend to be noisier, whether CO2 or pre-charged, regardless of power level, but it gets worse as the power goes up. Good luck.

 

[jbett98]

Tagged, because it's the most interesting thread to read as of late.

 

[2Wheels4Ever]

I may be in the minority here, but if I really liked the gun in respects to how it shot and felt in hand, then I'd be willing to overlook that particular issue. I rarely use safeties as it is, and have never touched them on my airguns.

I know how the feeling of mistrust can sour your opinion on a certain gun though. I've had a few that were unreliable and I couldn't sell them fast enough even once they were fixed.

 

[Mike97124]

Thanks for the comments. Dave, I didn't find any mention of this in any of the reviews and videos I watched before deciding on it. I did tell my wife that I wondered if mine was a fluke because of the lack of comments on this happening to others. Thanks for the info.

I did try to return it last night and found that guns that use a gas or flammable liquid (maybe there are air flame throwers out there? ) are not eligible for return, even when it's sold by Amazon. Since I couldn't find a way to contact the vendor that provided it to Amazon, I decided to contact them and tried their chat option. I got someone within a few minutes and explained to him what happened. He said he would see what my options were and after several minutes of no typing he came back and said he would refund my money and to keep the rifle. I was very glad to hear they were going to refund my price and surprised when they told me to keep it. I suspect it was because they can't take it back due to the gas or flammable liquid having been in it (even though the canisters were no longer in it) and it was a safety issue and not just because I didn't like it, they didn't have a lot of options. So good deal and I am happy.

I may follow your advice, Dave and take the safety out or just be careful with it. I took it back out of the box and have been playing with it without the CO2 canisters in it and the safety has gotten easier to go to the fire position. It is a real pain to put in safe mode though because you can't get a good grip on it to push it that way.

Since I don't have to send it back I'm going to go ahead and shoot it some. I've already mounted my Leapers scope on it but haven't tried zeroing it in yet. If it can't zero in I'm going to get the Burris Signature Extreme ring set with all of the +/- MOA insert options and use that to zero it in. Hopefully I won't have to since the kit is about $78 on Amazon.

Dave, also, you may be right about the noise. My wife fired it once, but I was standing right next to her. I'm going to let her fire the way I have been shooting the rats (inside the kitchen with the barrel poking out the patio door that is only open 4" or so) and I'll stand outside and see what it sounds like. That's a good bit of information and I didn't think about ear placement and the spring.

2Wheels, you are right about the feel. I like how it feels as well. Much better balanced than the Gamo break barrel and much lighter. When I emptied the canisters last night, I counted and I got about 45 good full puffs of air and then it started to really tapper off after 50 until it was out at around 60. I was firing pretty fast though (I see why people get a longer bolt for it) so the canisters may have lost power from getting real cold. I'll see how many shots I get shooting a lot slower.

The rats think they are safe for awhile, but I hope to give them a big surprise in the next night or two. The problem is they can wait longer before they come out at night than I can stay up since I get up at 4 am week mornings. I'm not as young as I use to be and am out of practice getting only 4 hours of sleep at night with phone call interruptions during that time. It's rough getting old. LOL!

Thanks guys.

Mike

 

[2Wheels4Ever]

Also, if you really do have a rat problem, the 5gal bucket drowning traps work wonders.
We set up a few of these in the fields around my place and in the first night we got over 10 dead. A few years later and they are still going strong. Usually 2 a month now that we have culled the population.

 

[daved20319]

Just to give you an idea of what can be done with the platform, and to show off a little bit :



The rifle was a QB that I converted to run off a 3000 PSI paint ball tank. I also made the silencer, which was highly effective, and the package ended up incredibly accurate, this was my primary starling whacker for a couple of years.

The pistol was a just because project. I tried to cut down an OEM gas tube to run on one CO2 cartridge, but threading the stock tube didn't work, so I had to make a gas tube from scratch. Despite how it looks, the stock/grip is all one piece, I laminated some poplar to get the needed thickness, then started carving. It actually worked quite well, kind of felt like a TC Contender, but without the recoil. This is the kind of stuff that can happen when your air gun hobby morphs into a machining hobby .

Enjoy your new QB, and if I can help in any way, don't hesitate to drop me a line. Later.

 

[Mike97124]

I think even one rat is a rat problem and if you have two, then you get a bunch real quick. I've thought of the bucket idea but haven't tried that yet. I thought about digging a hole and putting the bucket in it so they rats wouldn't have to work very hard to fall into the water. Before I found it was a lot quicker and more humane to finish off a rat that got a foot or tail caught in one of my snap traps to just drop it next to one of my Bouviers and in one second and a crunch it was dead, I use to drown them. It took a long time for them to drown, even weighted down in the water. I mean it took a long time and I wasn't that crazy about making them suffer that much, even as much as I hate rats.

I've often thought about a electrified plate like the battery operated zappers I have to take out a bunch of them at one time. I've watched at night with my IR camera when they come out. If I put the metal plate down and scatter bird feed on it and watch, I could trigger it manually when a bunch were on the plate and turn it off after a good jolt. My dad use to do that with a electrified fence charger to keep the squirrels out of the bird feeders but he put it through a large variable AC transformer so it tinged their butts and didn't kill them... usually.

I like the two guns and that pistol is cute. That sure is a nice job on both of them. I finally test fired the QB78 with the better scope on it this afternoon. Sure enough, I can get it spot on for right/left but I'm still an inch low with elevation adjusted all the way up. I've tried 3 different mounts for this scope and at the 20 feet or so I'm shooting it is way low on both pellet rifles I have. Since I can't adjust it enough I ordered the Burris set today that has the offset ring inserts. That will give me from +/- .05 to +/- .40 MOA in any direction. Hopefully that will allow me to get it adjusted and zeroed in and be done with it. I'll get those on Friday so I'll have all weekend to play with them.

Mike

 

[daved20319]

I've had the same issue with air guns, I usually just shimmed the back ring with some thin plastic stock, I'm going to date myself here, the last time I did it I used 35mm film. A couple of layers was usually about right, and since the CO2 guns are virtually recoilless, it wasn't necessary to be heavy handed with the cap screws, just snug did the trick. Your solution is certainly more elegant, with the added bonus of no chance of damaging a scope. Again, good luck, and if there's something I can help with, let me know. Later.

Dave

 

[Mike97124]

I tried shimming with a piece of foam. It did work, but even though I didn't tighten the screws down very tight, it still left marks on my scope tube where the edge of the ring was canted just a bit. The amount of up I needed though was more than just a few clicks though, other wise doing what you did would probably have worked.

I got my Burris XTR Signature Rings in this afternoon and put a +20 on the back and a -10 on the front and I was able to get the scope zeroed in on my QB78 without any problem. I still have up and down to play with if I ever go out more than the 30' I'm using the rifle for now, which is great. Those rings work just like they are advertised to for changing MOA so you can zero it in with your cross hairs centered in the tube.

I set up a shooting space in my family room that has a door that goes into the garage so I could site the rifle in. I put a pallet with a sold 3/4" inch thick hardwood plywood top standing up in front of the garage door, then an old blanket, the multiple layers of cardboard and then the cardboard with my reactive targets on it in front of that. I shot from 30' and though I heard the pellets hit the board on the pallet the pellets did not go through the blanket. From the sound of the pellets hitting and the shape most of them were in when I collected them off the floor where they fell, the rifle has plenty of hitting power to kill any rat I hit at 22'.

The one thing about the QB78 with a scope on it (and to and extent without the scope), it's not real easy putting a pellet in so that it is orientated the correct way. I don't think more than 2 or 3 of the dozen pellets I shot dropped in so I could just close the bolt without having to knock them over with my fingernail. I don't mind single action but I can see a pellet gun with a magazine would make it better just so I didn't have to fiddle with each pellet. But, I don't need to load real fast, since if I take a shot at a rat, the noise is enough to keep the others away for at least 10 or 15 minutes, so I have plenty of time to load and get ready.

Dave, thanks for the offer. About the only question I have right now is if you can get better iron sites for it? I tried using the ones that came on it and they are not very good at all, with no real way to adjust them. I've taken them off, but if there were better aftermarket sites for it, I might try using them rather than the scope. Now that I have the scope on it and sited in, I can start shooting it and see how it does and if I have any other questions.

Mike

 

[daved20319]

I tried shimming with a piece of foam. It did work, but even though I didn't tighten the screws down very tight, it still left marks on my scope tube where the edge of the ring was canted just a bit. The amount of up I needed though was more than just a few clicks though, other wise doing what you did would probably have worked.

I got my Burris XTR Signature Rings in this afternoon and put a +20 on the back and a -10 on the front and I was able to get the scope zeroed in on my QB78 without any problem. I still have up and down to play with if I ever go out more than the 30' I'm using the rifle for now, which is great. Those rings work just like they are advertised to for changing MOA so you can zero it in with your cross hairs centered in the tube.

I set up a shooting space in my family room that has a door that goes into the garage so I could site the rifle in. I put a pallet with a sold 3/4" inch thick hardwood plywood top standing up in front of the garage door, then an old blanket, the multiple layers of cardboard and then the cardboard with my reactive targets on it in front of that. I shot from 30' and though I heard the pellets hit the board on the pallet the pellets did not go through the blanket. From the sound of the pellets hitting and the shape most of them were in when I collected them off the floor where they fell, the rifle has plenty of hitting power to kill any rat I hit at 22'.

The one thing about the QB78 with a scope on it (and to and extent without the scope), it's not real easy putting a pellet in so that it is orientated the correct way. I don't think more than 2 or 3 of the dozen pellets I shot dropped in so I could just close the bolt without having to knock them over with my fingernail. I don't mind single action but I can see a pellet gun with a magazine would make it better just so I didn't have to fiddle with each pellet. But, I don't need to load real fast, since if I take a shot at a rat, the noise is enough to keep the others away for at least 10 or 15 minutes, so I have plenty of time to load and get ready.

Dave, thanks for the offer. About the only question I have right now is if you can get better iron sites for it? I tried using the ones that came on it and they are not very good at all, with no real way to adjust them. I've taken them off, but if there were better aftermarket sites for it, I might try using them rather than the scope. Now that I have the scope on it and sited in, I can start shooting it and see how it does and if I have any other questions.

Mike

Did yours come with FO sights, or was it the old style ramp adjustable rear? If the latter, you can get the QB Deluxe set, here's a link- Archer Airguns parts kit for Chinese QB78 family CO2-powered wood and metal airguns.. Williams also makes one of their adjustable receiver sights specifically for airguns, can't remember the number off hand, but they work pretty well, and I believe they fit the 11 mm dovetail. There's also a "match" style diopter sight available, it comes standard on the target version of the QB, but is also available as an aftermarket part, you should be able to find it on Archer's site. You can also get the match style sight from Pyramid Air, among others, lots of sources for basically the same thing. Of course, that's a peep sight, and although they're great for well lit targets, probably not so good for low light rat sniping, the Williams can be ordered with either an aperture or a notch.

Not much you can do about the loading issue, but you do develop a technique that makes it less fiddly. Fat fingers don't help, but I have medium/large hands and got to where it really wasn't an issue. There are a couple of mods that can help, or you can spend as much as you already spent on the rifle and order an Archer XP Tune Kit. Unless you really like tinkering with guns, I wouldn't advise it, that's the first step down the rabbit hole of more QB's and a whole new addiction to modding them. Great fun, and cheap as such things go, but it can take over you life, been there, done that, got multiple t-shirts .

 

[PGinSanDiego]

Just to give you an idea of what can be done with the platform, and to show off a little bit :

View attachment 589472 View attachment 589473

The rifle was a QB that I converted to run off a 3000 PSI paint ball tank. I also made the silencer, which was highly effective, and the package ended up incredibly accurate, this was my primary starling whacker for a couple of years.

The pistol was a just because project. I tried to cut down an OEM gas tube to run on one CO2 cartridge, but threading the stock tube didn't work, so I had to make a gas tube from scratch. Despite how it looks, the stock/grip is all one piece, I laminated some poplar to get the needed thickness, then started carving. It actually worked quite well, kind of felt like a TC Contender, but without the recoil. This is the kind of stuff that can happen when your air gun hobby morphs into a machining hobby .

Enjoy your new QB, and if I can help in any way, don't hesitate to drop me a line. Later.

Hello,

My name is Phil. That is some awesome job you did there with the QB Platform. I have been searching for someone who can make a 1 cart gas tube for the QB like you did your QB pistol. Can I pay you to do one for me?

Happy Shooting,


Phil

 

[Member 34319]

Sometimes I wish I lived in the country and had rodent problems so I could have things to shoot at.

Used to take out the local pigeon population back in NV. Not much pigeon population where I'm at.

I rocked an RWS. It was insanely accurate and fairly quiet.

Bummer the C02 was a dud, I've always wanted to try one.

One thing I have learned with pellets is they are usually softer lead. So lead fouling happens quickly. I was surprised the first time cleaning my RWS back in the day. It was worse than cleaning a rimfire can after a few range sessions.

My RWS shot way better the cleaner it was. After say 75 pellets, the groups opened up noticeably at 25-30 yards which is the distance I took most of the pigeons with it. If aiming at the head after 75 pellets, chances are I'd miss.

 

[Mike97124]

Being in the country wouldn't be so bad, but we live in Hillsboro not far from the fairgrounds. We shouldn't have this many rats around here.

The Beeman worked just fine once I quit using the safety on it. I just always leave the bolt open until I'm ready to fire. I actually erradicated all of the rats with it for awhile with it. I got a couple back after a few weeks and took care of them and hadn't seen any on the security cameras for a couple of months until last night. One came through and was picking at the bird food on the ground. I'll keep an eye out to see if it sticks around and if so dust off the rifle again.

I am amazed at how long it holds co2 pressure though. I put the 2 co2 canisters in back in July and even though it has leaned against the wall next to the patio door in between uses, it's still holding plenty of pressure to bury the .22 pellet in a 2x4 post. I would have thought it would have leaked out by now but it must have a good seal in it.

I've noticed that about the soft pellets as well, although I've not cleaned my rifle yet. I'm only shooting at about 25 feet so I do not need the same accuracy I would if I was shooting the same distance you were. I'd like to have the room to try shooting longer distances but we've got neighbors all around us.

If you want some rats to shoot, I'll send some your way, Reno.

Mike

 

[daved20319]

Hello,

My name is Phil. That is some awesome job you did there with the QB Platform. I have been searching for someone who can make a 1 cart gas tube for the QB like you did your QB pistol. Can I pay you to do one for me?

Happy Shooting,


Phil

Sorry, Phil, too many other projects demanding my attention for the foreseeable future. Nor is my lathe operational, I had to rearrange my shop and haven't gotten around to moving the electrical or leveling it yet. There are modern Crosman guns still being made that use only one cartridge, both pistols and rifles, might be worth a look at Crosman.com.

 

[daved20319]

A note on cleaning air guns, guys. It sounds like you're cleaning too much. I have a .25 PCP that I've owned since 2008, I think I've cleaned it once, and it's a laser. Yes, accuracy will fall off after cleaning, sometime right away, sometimes after shooting it awhile. But keep shooting it and the accuracy will come back. Also, DO NOT use regular firearms cleaning tools and solvents. On the rare occasions that I do clean an air gun, I use Goo Gone and a patch and a pull through of some type, you can make a cheap and effective one with a length of weed whacker line. Bore snakes work, too, but be sure you cut off the brush, it's not needed, and air rifle barrels are usually softer steels than firearms, so it can actually cause damage.

 

[birdmove]

I had not heard that about the QB series Beemans. I like the QB78S model.

 

[Frank RW]

I had not heard that about the QB series Beemans. I like the QB78S model.

I've enjoyed mine so much, I bought two.

 

[arakboss]

Have you looked at this style of trap: