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Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by slimer13, Mar 6, 2013.
This is what some among us think:
I dont buy it
I'll vote for universal background checks right after we get Obwans REAL birth certificate, his school records, ALL the info on Fast & Furious and Holder and Obwan are in jail.
I don't want universal Checks, Paying $10 to $50 just to buy or sell a $75 .22? Not for me. Taxation with no representation.
Absolutely NO universal background checks! In fact, no checks at all. If that were to happen right now I can almost certainly guarantee that violent felons, etc., would get their hands on a lot of guns that way. Before we get to no background checks we would have to actually keep violent offenders in prison and not release them unless they were no longer a threat. I don't see that happening anytime soon so we'll have to stick with 'some sort of check'.
I have given background checks some thought. I am against them for a couple of reasons. For law abiding citizens to pay the cost of proving they are law abiding is not right. Second, 'universal' background checks is the first step in registration and confiscation. Even for those folks out there that don't actually want to ban all guns, that is where it leads. I know criminals will still get guns but I don't think that is a good reason to make it any easier for them.
I would like to hear other arguements agains the 'universal' background checks.
Also, what if they made the system available on line such that the purchaser can go on and input his/her information and the seller then gets an email confirming the buyer is not a known criminal. Then the seller shows ID and gets the gun. Make the service free so that all the anti's are helping foot the bill. Make it voluntary so that we as gun owners take back the responsability. That way when you sell to your neighbor that you have know all your life you can skip the check. Accompany that will a law that makes it illegal for the information to be kept (I know the government will probably not comply).
What do you think? Would you use it? Is it too much?
Don't get me wrong, I am not interested in compromising with the anti's. But if they get the background checks passed maybe we can turn the tables and chip away at it a little at a time and use the slippery slope tou our advantage and slide right back to freedom.
Registration leads to confiscation, Just take a good look at history and the answer is easy to see.
Won't play their stupid little game. Ever.
What I find disturbing is the statistic that has come up again and again in MSM: "96% of Americans want universal background checks." This has been repeated over and over, as if you repeat it enough it will be true. Even more disturbing is trying to find out where this "statistic" is from. If anyone here can find a data source then post it.
No one I associate (I know birds of a feather, etc) with wants this in it's current form, so where are they getting this overwhelming number?
There is no purpose to background checks of any sort. They don't detour crime, they are easily bypassed (straw sales) and even the ones that don't pass aren't prosecuted. All they really do is slow things down at the gun counter and raise consumer cost. They serve no useful purpose except to track law abiding citizens.
While I am not opposed to background checks, generally, sort of, kinda, huh? I am absolutely opposed to anything that has a serial number attached to it. I really don't like them at all, but, never have lived during at time when there wasn't one. I mean on new guns, not private party.
I understand that no criminal types will subject themselves to a check. I have sold and purchased several during private sales and never thought them necessary.
Actually, when I think about it, they serve no purpose. It's an assumption of guilt and having to prove myself innocent before conducting a lawful activity.
If the background check was on the buyer ONLY no information what so ever collected on the firearm. I could see some value. It should be free. Like the NICS is now.
It should be available 24 hours a day via internet or telephone.
But the above said I would not vote for anything in addition to the current system.
I believe what you stated here is what.... The 79% in favor of the 'Universal Back Check" believe.... They don't know about the gun registration part.
I'm not a fan of universal background checks unless, like others have said, it is free and accessible to all who want to sell a firearm. I am not in favor of having to go to an FFL and pay for a NICS and then pay what ever they want to charge to transfer. I especially don't want to have to pay when I want to pass on my firearms to my children. Will I even be able to pass them on to my children like my father and grandfather have done?
I'm kind of curious for the person who voted "yes" to universal background checks to explain his reasoning. Obviously, not a whole lot of people agree with him, but I'm curious to hear why a gun owner would support that.
They voted yes MountainBear because their sucking down coolaid and believe it will stop a criminal from getting a gun.
As pointed out above, you CANNOT enforce universal background checks WITHOUT gun registration. How else can police know whether you purchased a firearm legally pior to the requirement, or illegally afterward, unless you register what you have at the time the law goes into effect? Simply put, you cannot have universal checks without registration. Universal checks EQUAL gun registration. Just like mental health disqualification EQUALS your diagnosis of anxiety disorder or situational depression when going through a divorce (for example) MEANS you are AUTOMATICALLY in an FBI database. These things sound great on the surface, until you dig a bit deeper.
You must not have tried very hard to find the source(s). It took me about 2 minutes using Google.
(Gallup Poll) PRINCETON, NJ -- Given the chance to vote "for" or "against" each of nine key proposals included in President Barack Obama's plan to reduce gun violence, Americans back all nine. Americans are most likely to be in favor of requiring background checks for all gun sales (91%)
Americans Back Obama's Proposals to Address Gun Violence
Ninety-two percent of Americans favor background checks for all potential gun buyers, according to a new CBS News/New York Times poll.
The CBS News/New York Times poll emphasizes the bipartisan support behind a requirement for background checks on all gun purchases. Out of Democrats, 93% support background checks. And out of Republicans, 89% support them. In households with members of the National Rifle Association, 85% are for more background checks.
9 in 10 back universal gun background checks - Political Eye - CBS News
Washington state voters support requiring background checks for all gun sales, according to a poll released Tuesday morning.
The Elway Poll, conducted by Stuart Elway, found that 79 percent of voters support the expanded checks (currently, checks are required for sales by licensed dealers but not for purchases from private sellers).
New poll: Most favor universal background checks for guns | Politics Northwest | Seattle Times
The Oregonian's survey, conducted by Elway Research of Seattle, found that between 36 percent and 39 percent of those with guns in their homes would support a ban on assault weapons and large gun magazines and a prohibition on carrying concealed handguns into schools.
In addition, a large majority – 75 percent – would favor expanding background checks to cover private gun sales in the state.
Oregon gun owners not monolithic in their views on new firearms restrictions, survey shows | OregonLive.com
Name any political topic - any topic - that 75 to 92% of Americans agree on.
So-called "universal" background checks are coming, like it or not.
i've always been amused by the need to rely and depend upon statistics. for the sake of organization and ability, only a certain number of people are queried by the "research group." so, say, "75%" of oregonians would favor universal background checks was derived from polling--probably--100 random people (maybe, at most, 1000). these 100-1000 people DO NOT REPRESENT THE WILL OF THE COUNTRY. however, to further rationalize and legitimize whatever insane and illegal policy requires some semblance of "reason," which is usually engineered towards a specific goal before and during the polling query. polls are dangerous, and do not properly represent the populace as a whole. for all we know, elway research of seattle sent a "team" to downtown and nw portland and asked 100 people about "gunz."
Serious Statistical Secrets
Did you read the article that was linked? It didn't say 75% of Oregonians support "universal" background checks, it said 75% of Oregonian gun owners support "universal background checks. 89% of Oregonians who don't own guns support "universal" background checks.
Most gun owners in general are not activists. Out of 40 to 80 million gun owners in the US, only 4 million are NRA members. I have seen countless posts in comments about gun control articles where people say "I am a long-time hunter and gun owner. I see no need for assault weapons and high capacity 'clips'". Those are the gun owners that Ginny Burdick calls the "reasonable gun owners", and there are a lot of them. There are a lot of gun owners who support or don't care about gun control as long as they and their shotguns and bolt-action rifles are not affected.
The poll sample size was 504. Only 46% were from the Portland metro area. To accurately reflect the state a large percentage of the sample would have to come from Oregon's largest population center, otherwise the poll would not be valid. The poll questions are here.
You can try to discredit the poll because you don't like the results, but polling is based on science that has become pretty standardized. It isn't just one poll that shows support for "universal" background checks. All of the polls across the country, conducted by respected polling agencies like Gallup (Gallup has produced polls in the past showing support for gun rights, so they are hardly anti-gun) have consistently shown strong support for "universal" background checks, even among Republicans, gun owners, and NRA members.