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Unions vs Right To Work - Colt & Remington out - M4 contract goes overseas

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by dallen1x, Mar 2, 2013.

  1. dallen1x

    dallen1x Wil_Val, OR Active Member

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  2. RoneKiln

    RoneKiln Western Washington Active Member

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    "Even Remington, which is based in North Carolina and has manufacturing plants throughout the south, planned to manufacture the M4A1 rifles in its major Ilion, N.Y., facility. New York is another state without right-to-work laws and the Ilion facility is also a union shop, a cost factor in its government bid."

    If Remington had the option of doing the work at plants that are nonunion, then I don't see the union as having anything to do with the issue. Their factories are already maxed out for production. Taking that government contract could be more harmful than beneficial to them.

    When someone you have a good relationship with asks you to bid for work you don't want, you give them a high bid, knowing you won't win. Cause you don't want it, but it's considered bad form to refuse to bid. In the freak chance they give it to you despite the high bid, it's high enough that you can expand your workforce and infrastructure to get the work done.

    In general I'm hearing these manufacturers are backlogged 15+ months worth of work. Competing for more work that they couldn't handle would be stupid, and has nothing to do with Unions.
     
  3. DieselScout

    DieselScout S Clackamas County Well-Known Member

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    FNH had a huge contract from them before and at one point was building the majority of M4's and M249's. Regardless of who owns the company blue collar American workers are still going to be the beneficiaries of this. The blue collar worker is more likely to spend there money locally and keep their money stateside.
     
  4. tacticalgunner

    tacticalgunner Wilsonville The Man, The Myth, The Legend Bronze Supporter

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    Unions are a big part of what is wrong with this country and the economics stress we are in
     
  5. Kevinkris

    Kevinkris Aloha Well-Known Member

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    well if it makes you feel better they will never send military contracted production oversees, i wouldnt worry about it too much. the problem is they will still have to produce those rifles in the US to keep selling to the US military. its a long known fact that everything used by our military is only produced in the US with the exception to what soldiers buy with their own money.
     
  6. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    WOW are you wrong. Try looking at the world of military electronics.
     
  7. BAMCIS

    BAMCIS Eugene Well-Known Member

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    And the high taxes. The taxes are so high so as to keep the entitlement programs (that liberals love) funded.

    Sadly this is becoming more commonplace, unions (and more broadly liberals) pricing themselves right out of a job. Gotta love 'em!
     
  8. sig40shooter

    sig40shooter Tahuya WA Member

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    Unions are good! I like Unions in my stir fry. Sometimes Unions are good in salads or sandwiches. The absolute best however is the Bloomin' Union!.... he he he...
     
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  9. tacticalgunner

    tacticalgunner Wilsonville The Man, The Myth, The Legend Bronze Supporter

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    That's so corny Del Monte wouldn't can it!
     
  10. KalamaMark

    KalamaMark Kalama Wa Well-Known Member

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    My guns, ammo, and NRA lifetime membership were bought with hard earned union wages.

    I find the short sighted, misdirected hate towards unions as preposterous and ill informed as Diane Feinstein's desire to ban black rifles.
     
  11. viehmann7680

    viehmann7680 Centralia Active Member

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    That is the biggest load of crap i've ever heard. Without unions people A LOT of people would be making crap money, have crap benefits, and work crap hours. And the economic stress??? Ya we should just continue to let the wealthy people that own these companies pocket even more, get out of more taxes, and give nothing back to the people. Where as union workers will spend their money locally, pay their share of taxes and actually have a chance at having a good family environment. I suppose we should just eliminate unions, lower minimum wage and let all the illegal immigrants come work for cheap and let all our american citizens live in poverty.
     
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  12. PX4WA

    PX4WA Tacoma, WA Active Member

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    let's just accept that there are a lot of union workers here and questioning their livelihood will cause tempers to rise...

    that said, unions have helped form the middle class, the problem is when unions don't know when to stop... it's not the union worker's fault, just the union leaders who have to prove they are worth their union dues...

    union leaders make 6 figure salaries for sitting at a bargaining table, and if they don't "produce" that 6 figure salary may go away... so they squeeze every ounce out of system...

    to the union workers... be honest about your job's worth... if you think your leaders are over doing it, speak up and have them back down or you will get them replaced... unfortunately that is not going to happen... everybody likes getting paid more, whether or not they deserve it...

    to be fair, my wife works for a union and makes decent money... 1.5-2x pay for some overtime, that said, I don't see how their company can stay afloat if they paid 2x overtime everyday... and she's not gonna decline that overtime pay either...

    so I'm not pretending to be better than anybody... just pointing out reality...
     
    nwdrifter and (deleted member) like this.
  13. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    Unions have their place. No doubt about it. But workers should be allowed to choose if they want to belong.

    My experience with unions was being threatened by a union "thug" that I would be terminated if I didn't join. I was 17 years old. I was getting paid $5/hour to bag groceries. I got maybe 12 per week. The union wanted $75 per month from me. Unfortunately, that's what I think a lot of people's experience with unions are.

    If unions want to exist past the next decade, they need to clean up their act. They need to actually change their practices, rather than just give lip service and continue their often corrupt practices.
     
  14. mancat

    mancat Kitsap County Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I had this conversation with some friends who said that it would be awesome if Colt or Armalite cut off the government from production. I told them that the government would simply move all contracts over to FN or HK.
     
  15. Kevinkris

    Kevinkris Aloha Well-Known Member

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    i used to make military electronics, i have spoken to those who were contracting our work and they only use products made in the US. maybe you should know what your talking about before you claim that i dont.
     
  16. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    Unions act asparasites, they feed and feed off of the host until there is nothing left and the host dies.
    Companies don't have to "give back to thepeople".. we're not in a communist state..yet. Getting paid well and actually earning the money one would be paid well for are two different things. Its no ones responsibility to "help" or "give" all those entitlements to the lazy. If a job doesn't pay you enough, get another job Or change careers. I own my own business AND have a second early AM job and we're still just getting by, but at theend of the day know my blood and sweat earned every cent that pays for everything I've got.

    As a business owner I see how incredibly corrupt unions are and what those union contracts do to companies. Oh sure, unions had a place WAY back in the day, but now with all our labor laws and other various checks and balances in the work place to make sure employees are working in safe conditions among other trivial things unions serve only one purpose now, to leach off companies for as long as they can.. Then the company goes under and the parasitic union moves on to the next host.

    When hasit ever been beneficial for the company to have a union contract?
     
  17. 3MTA3

    3MTA3 DMZ between Liberty and Tyranny Behind Enemy Lines Bronze Supporter

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    I'd rather we save our bickering energy for "Gun Grabbers vs Right to Shoot"...

    I've had good and bad experiences with unions. In most cases there was a reason the shop was union. That said, I'd make less money if I ever went union again. To me that illustrates the greatest weakness of unionization - over performers get the same rewards as under performers, so eventually everyone works to the lowest expectations. I just can't do that again, but that's my personal decision.
     
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  18. VancouverKid

    VancouverKid Vancouver Member

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    Gov't contracts are lowest bidder (or close to it). Take a look at the prices the we in the private sector are paying right now. Would you like to sell a 1000 guns wholesale for $100 to Uncle Sam or the same 1000 guns to Bubba's gun hut for $200 ea?
     
  19. longcolt

    longcolt Zephyrhills, FL Active Member

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    I suspect you will see more of the larger gun manufacturers going the way of Winchester at some point, unless they relocate manufacturing to states like SC or other Right To Work states. Winchester fought with the Unions and the City for years and then flat shut down the business and sold off the name. The workers were stunned that Union officials guessed wrong about the impending bankruptcy. Kind of like what recently happened with Hostess Cake in the south. Business gone, Unions workers unemployed. Very sad.

    But its not all union wages, its the fact the New England area has very high property tax levels and just high living cost period.
     
  20. BAMCIS

    BAMCIS Eugene Well-Known Member

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    Let market forces work. What caliber of employee will a company get if they have a crap wage and benefit package?

    You don't like what your'e making, or the working conditions then move on. The market has a very powerful effect.

    I have never liked what I made tied to the performance of anyone else. As 3MTA3 pointed out eventually everyone works to the lowest expectations. In my working life my employers had high expectations of me and I had high expectations of them. This arrangement has worked out very well. We have both been rewarded over and over.

    Unfortunately having a union shop prevents a company from being very flexible. It's no wonder jobs are being outsourced to Asia.

    To be clear, personally I am anti-union, not anti-worker.