Union workers who make parts for military vehicles caught smoking pot and drinking

[MinnesotaORnewbie]

I would agree, bad company, poor management of the required rules and testing and would lead one to believe the company may have known about it and turned a blind eye. Example of a good straight arrow company?.....Right here in Oregon, Hoffman Construction....Job Intel D1x, 2000 workers on the job during the summer, Someone found what was later found out a small bag of drugs, way out on the outer edge of the jobsite, where only a small amount of workers and only one specific trade was working, next day, everyone was getting dropped off at the gates and once in the gates, told to wait for a group meeting before starting work. What happened?,job wide drug test for all, including the office workers, secretarys, and all the head supervisors. Was kept so secret that about 80 people were sent home for positive results, from everything from alchohol, to hard drugs, even prescription drugs that were legal, but had to be sorted out with letters from doctors. Who were the people, suprisingly, low level workers, popular workers, a few forman, office workers, and even a few head supervisors all lost there job. This job was the biggest in the United States, $4 billion dollars just on this one job in Hillsboro. That is how a good company Union or not handles such a incident.

 

[Rapid1]

Every news account I've read of this incident mentions "union". Some even mention that they were in sight of the union hall...LOL. The bias here really shows when some get their panties all in a wad because Fox reported it.

"Cheapest labor"...haha...not if they are union...suspended, my ***...they aren't fired on the spot because of the "union". But then again, I guess since there was no harm in these guys gettin all high and drunk then making products that protect our servicemen, it's probably ok. No problemo. But wait! Could be these videos were just doctored...isn't that what Barney said about the video that showed him getting all indignant when he was told Fannie and Freddie were in trouble, before the meltdown, calling his honorable cohorts and the president "Bad people"? Must have been fake since he isn't in jail but instead "retiring".

Funniest thing here is how those in this thread get all indignant at the media pointing out "union" issues but justify the "occupy" crowd for protesting the evil corps. Unions are in the same category as corps when it comes to buying politicians at all levels. thanks to those union dollars, there are no "non-union" government contracts...but I'm sure we'll all hear about the "union quality" that gets us the most out of our tax dollars for these and all the other super efficient government projects.

Actually, I think most are just mad because Fox and O'Reilly reported it. Just like our fearless leader...he doesn't like em much either.

 

[JGRuby]

MY dad worked for GM at plant number 3 in Lansing Michigan ( the jet plant ) on Saginaw St. as the UAW union shop steward for a few years - the stories I heard as kid about how union members got away with almost anything ( wife beating, not coming to work, going to jail,, etc.....) and the union got these guys jobs back for them. My dad did not always feel that this was right but the Union ensured that this was done to protect thier income. I was always taught that you got out of life or a job what you put into it and should be treated accordingly and that if I did not like my job I could find another. How does this help anyone but the criminal out. My dad also told me about how the unions would get together every year and figure out which group was going out on strike that year or if it was possible for them to strike that year. Ever wonder why a brand new vehicles cost so much? Or how a person standing on a assembly line can make 25$ a hour or more for putting a bolt into a hole.

I was stationed at Mare Island Naval shipyard ( Vallejoe Ca.) from 12/9/1981 through 5/26/1986 on the USS seawolf - SSN 575 - we worked really close with the ship yard staff and yes they were union. I think you had to be union to work on the shipyard. Anyhow I am up in the conning tower one day and I happen to over hear two union workers talking - one says to the other - "slow down we can make this job last all day if we want, the union doesnt want us to make the other guys look bad". In other words they were milking the job for everything they could because the union would protect them. I wil lalways remember that.

I am anti unions because I have not seen anything in modern times they have accomplished that is worth a darn except to keep work from being accomplished by those that want to work hard. This is hard for me to admit because my family was union when growing up but I cant stomach the Unions today.

James Ruby

 

[Jamie6.5]

So, they were suspended, when otherwise (read: NON-union) workers would be fired.

Drugs in the workplace, legal or otherwise, means impaired workers.
Impaired workers mean a much greater chance that the finished product will be sub-standard.
Now, if the workplace happens to be defense, or aircraft/aerospace, auto/transportation substandard means people get killed when parts/assemblies fail.

But since these workers are union, their union goes to bat for them in negotiations over whether or not they lose their jobs.

I'm sorry union advocates but I have to ask:
In whose world is this okay?
Do you honestly feel these people should be allowed to retain their job(s)?
Do you honestly believe that union membership entitles a person to circumvent the company "No/Zero Tolerance" drug policy?

When the union(s) start booting these types out, they'll gain more traction.
But if they keep it up, they'll keep meeting resistance from employers.
The very notion that employers don't or shouldn't have the power to fire someone that smokes dope and then returns to work impaired is ludicrous.
The fact that this company builds something that the American military relies on to save lives makes even it more important, and the violation more heinous.

 

[MinnesotaORnewbie]

MY dad worked for GM at plant number 3 in Lansing Michigan ( the jet plant ) on Saginaw St. as the UAW union shop steward for a few years - the stories I heard as kid about how union members got away with almost anything ( wife beating, not coming to work, going to jail,, etc.....) and the union got these guys jobs back for them. My dad did not always feel that this was right but the Union ensured that this was done to protect thier income. I was always taught that you got out of life or a job what you put into it and should be treated accordingly and that if I did not like my job I could find another. How does this help anyone but the criminal out. My dad also told me about how the unions would get together every year and figure out which group was going out on strike that year or if it was possible for them to strike that year. Ever wonder why a brand new vehicles cost so much? Or how a person standing on a assembly line can make 25$ a hour or more for putting a bolt into a hole.

I was stationed at Mare Island Naval shipyard ( Vallejoe Ca.) from 12/9/1981 through 5/26/1986 on the USS seawolf - SSN 575 - we worked really close with the ship yard staff and yes they were union. I think you had to be union to work on the shipyard. Anyhow I am up in the conning tower one day and I happen to over hear two union workers talking - one says to the other - "slow down we can make this job last all day if we want, the union doesnt want us to make the other guys look bad". In other words they were milking the job for everything they could because the union would protect them. I wil lalways remember that.

I am anti unions because I have not seen anything in modern times they have accomplished that is worth a darn except to keep work from being accomplished by those that want to work hard. This is hard for me to admit because my family was union when growing up but I cant stomach the Unions today.

James Ruby

That is the most most ignorant, opinionated, personal dislike load of crap I have ever heard of. Union workers getting away with Wife beatings, not going to work, JAIL, etc. Haha lol, WOW, I never knew that, I don't have to go to work and can't get fired, and on top of that, if I ever commited a crime, which I do not, I don't have to go to Jail? lol, Thats like me saying When I was growing up, my daddy told me how Ford's crashed, and wheels fell off and if you ever owned one, you were surely going to die.

 

[MinnesotaORnewbie]

by the way, I would invite you to come out to a job like the new intel project and spend a 12 hour day with me or anyone on the crew. One day and Im pretty sure we would have to whining and crying because its too much like a hard day at work. Your Mind is set in its place for some reason yet you have zero experience in its setting, but only a obscured view on what you have heard or seen maybe a 5 second clip on T.V.

 

[JGRuby]

That is the most most ignorant, opinionated, personal dislike load of crap I have ever heard of. Union workers getting away with Wife beatings, not going to work, JAIL, etc. Haha lol, WOW, I never knew that, I don't have to go to work and can't get fired, and on top of that, if I ever commited a crime, which I do not, I don't have to go to Jail? lol, Thats like me saying When I was growing up, my daddy told me how Ford's crashed, and wheels fell off and if you ever owned one, you were surely going to die.

I am repeating what I have been told and relating to what I have seen and heard - you do not have to like what I say or even understand it. These are my experiences and I have stated my position - if you dont like it too bad. You appreantly cant accept some one elses view.


James Ruby

 

[MinnesotaORnewbie]

So, they were suspended, when otherwise (read: NON-union) workers would be fired.

Drugs in the workplace, legal or otherwise, means impaired workers.
Impaired workers mean a much greater chance that the finished product will be sub-standard.
Now, if the workplace happens to be defense, or aircraft/aerospace, auto/transportation substandard means people get killed when parts/assemblies fail.

But since these workers are union, their union goes to bat for them in negotiations over whether or not they lose their jobs.

I'm sorry union advocates but I have to ask:
In whose world is this okay?
Do you honestly feel these people should be allowed to retain their job(s)?
Do you honestly believe that union membership entitles a person to circumvent the company "No/Zero Tolerance" drug policy?

When the union(s) start booting these types out, they'll gain more traction.
But if they keep it up, they'll keep meeting resistance from employers.
The very notion that employers don't or shouldn't have the power to fire someone that smokes dope and then returns to work impaired is ludicrous.
The fact that this company builds something that the American military relies on to save lives makes even it more important, and the violation more heinous.

your notion is wrong, they will be fired if they havent already, there is no circumventing the companies policy.
A cop could beat someone in front of 100 people with his gun, night stick for no reason and then shoot them dead, he is still going to be put on leave until a investigation is done. These workers will not get any pay while on suspension, and the company is protecting itself as any company would to protect itself, union or not. They fire the wrong person that should not have been, then lawsuits happen, and in detroit, I would assume, after looking at the video, some would even try to throw the old race card out. If you work at Fred meyers, and smoke a joint out side, and a customer complains. What will Freddys do, fire you right away, no, they will suspend you until they find out 100% by asking witnesses, maybe looking at video, drug testing the employee, all the while following WORKER RIGHTS LAWS that are set aside so you cannot be fired for no reason. HOW IS THAT NOT UNDERSTOOD, it is a right to every AMERICAN citizen.

 

[MinnesotaORnewbie]

I am repeating what I have been told and relating to what I have seen and heard -
James Ruby

Exactly!

 

[Redcap]

I fail to see why this is news.

 

[Rapid1]

That is the most most ignorant, opinionated, personal dislike load of crap I have ever heard of. Union workers getting away with Wife beatings, not going to work, JAIL, etc. Haha lol, WOW, I never knew that, I don't have to go to work and can't get fired, and on top of that, if I ever commited a crime, which I do not, I don't have to go to Jail? lol, Thats like me saying When I was growing up, my daddy told me how Ford's crashed, and wheels fell off and if you ever owned one, you were surely going to die.

While Mr Ruby and I rarely see eye to eye, I'm with him on this one. The real ignorance is displayed by your comments.

 

[MinnesotaORnewbie]

While Mr Ruby and I rarely see eye to eye, I'm with him on this one. The real ignorance is displayed by your comments.

hmmm, Sir, do you know what the meaning of ignorance is?
1.Lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.
2.Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular
All of which are present when someone says most of his statement is from hear say.

my comment was a direct response to a Ignorant Statement by him > so would that be a double ignorant?
I do have to apoligize though, this is not something worth while to argue about, and with that I will end commenting, everyone does have their right to their own opinion.

 

[JGRuby]

by the way, I would invite you to come out to a job like the new intel project and spend a 12 hour day with me or anyone on the crew. One day and Im pretty sure we would have to whining and crying because its too much like a hard day at work. Your Mind is set in its place for some reason yet you have zero experience in its setting, but only a obscured view on what you have heard or seen maybe a 5 second clip on T.V.

I have a job already - I put somewhere on average above 55+ hours a week supporting IT systems - Monday started at 7:30 AM and finished at 3:30AM Tuesday morning, I had 38 Hours in by Wednesday evening. This is normal with our down sizing and trying to do "more with less". I really dont have time to take you up on your offer as I dont have a lot of time to play games. Mind you I am not complaining for I am a lucky one that currently has a paying job in todays environment.
I like clean sheets and good food. You can either sleep well or eat well and a lucky man can do both at the same time sometimes.


James Ruby

 

[JGRuby]

hmmm, Sir, do you know what the meaning of ignorance is?
1.Lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.
2.Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular
All of which are present when someone says most of his statement is from hear say.

my comment was a direct response to a Ignorant Statement by him > so would that be a double ignorant?
I do have to apoligize though, this is not something worth while to argue about, and with that I will end commenting, everyone does have their right to their own opinion.

Go ahead and reread this again
"I was stationed at Mare Island Naval shipyard ( Vallejoe Ca.) from 12/9/1981 through 5/26/1986 on the USS seawolf - SSN 575 - we worked really close with the ship yard staff and yes they were union. I think you had to be union to work on the shipyard. Anyhow I am up in the conning tower one day and I happen to over hear two union workers talking - one says to the other - "slow down we can make this job last all day if we want, the union doesnt want us to make the other guys look bad". In other words they were milking the job for everything they could because the union would protect them. I wil lalways remember that."

I was there and this is not hearsay..

James Ruby



"

 

[Sabertooth]

For my two cents. The United Dock Workers Union should be brought up on charges of Treason for there actions in 1970.
If I say any more it will sound like I'm ranting.
I was in Viet Nam at the time.

 

[Rapid1]

hmmm, Sir, do you know what the meaning of ignorance is?
1.Lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.
2.Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular
All of which are present when someone says most of his statement is from hear say.

my comment was a direct response to a Ignorant Statement by him > so would that be a double ignorant?
I do have to apoligize though, this is not something worth while to argue about, and with that I will end commenting, everyone does have their right to their own opinion.

Well, when you take his comments, paraphrase into your own and sensationalize them, and then call him ignorant, what do you call that? I see that as a "lack of knowledge or awareness in general or about something particular." Perhaps if you were knowledgeable or aware of this particular topic, you would not have felt the need to attack Mr Ruby. Just because one is not a union worker does not mean they don't see what goes on there. It only takes a bit of common sense to see that when you take initiative out of the equation, you breed complacence and then what happens when you protect complacence? You lose production as well as quality. I guess that's the difference in thinking between those that strive to succeed and those that do not.

I know several "union workers". They would rather NOT be union but it is required for the training and the jobs they work on. They don't need a union to provide for them, in fact, they feel they could be more successful if they didn't have to work next to people that don't care and have no initiative to do more or do it better.

Only a union worker that loves the union fails to see why jobs go elsewhere...and then blame evil companies.

 

[Aero Denezol]

Fox News reminds me of those low budget VHS tapes we used to watch in 10th grade gov't class. They outline the talking points on the screen like there's going to be a quiz later. Then I remember my soon to be father in law and I'm reminded a sizeable portion of their audience is hard of hearing.

Too many smut stories on Fox News about teenage girls and facebook. They should just have the two blondes kiss each other.

The news is garbage, including all the feminist pinko networks, CNN, MSN, and NBC. People in this country don't think for themselves anymore. That's why our political system is a deadlocked piece of trash, whose primary function is entertainment... The news is not the cause of the trouble, it's the symptom of the illness. They cook up and serve what people want to eat.

 

[locobob]

I worked for a company that started out non-union and then became unionized some ten years later. I noticed very little change in worker attitude with the transition. The people who were worth a damn before were still worth a damn under the union. We had flakes and substance abusers before and after the union came. What really changed over the years was the company's management style, in the early days we had a good deal of freedom in regards to the way things got done. Many of us worked very hard and closely identified our own success with the company's success. We had a few idiots that would mess things up here and there but overall we were a highly motivated, hard working bunch. Slowly but surely the corporate culture began to change, they started micromanaging peoples behavior. We were spied on, harassed, and just generally treated like a bunch of six year olds. Pretty soon we were just commodities in the eyes of management. It was then that the union came. Did it fix much? Well not really, but it did give us some representation under the new system the company had chosen to adopt. I look at it as going from a solid marriage to an ugly divorce, and once we arrived in divorce court we had to have council... the union.

 

[civilian75]

Union or not, political agenda or not, I don't care. Drinking and smoking pot on the job is as stupid and irresponsible as it comes. If making the national news is what took to get this employer's arse moving and remove these pot heads from their jobs, so be it. They are dangerous to themselves and those around them. I hope from now on they take their own drug abuse policies seriously. They should be thanking O'Reilly. It as better this way than making the news after some pot head got killed or severely injured on the job.

 

[slingshot1943]

I would agree, bad company, poor management of the required rules and testing and would lead one to believe the company may have known about it and turned a blind eye. Example of a good straight arrow company?.....Right here in Oregon, Hoffman Construction....Job Intel D1x, 2000 workers on the job during the summer, Someone found what was later found out a small bag of drugs, way out on the outer edge of the jobsite, where only a small amount of workers and only one specific trade was working, next day, everyone was getting dropped off at the gates and once in the gates, told to wait for a group meeting before starting work. What happened?,job wide drug test for all, including the office workers, secretarys, and all the head supervisors. Was kept so secret that about 80 people were sent home for positive results, from everything from alchohol, to hard drugs, even prescription drugs that were legal, but had to be sorted out with letters from doctors. Who were the people, suprisingly, low level workers, popular workers, a few forman, office workers, and even a few head supervisors all lost there job. This job was the biggest in the United States, $4 billion dollars just on this one job in Hillsboro. That is how a good company Union or not handles such a incident.

I have worked for Hoffman. Their safety record was so bad no one was employed under their name. My checks came from a sub contractor.