Unfavorable Review of AR500 Body Armor

[SonicBlue03]

I guess my question is what do you see your primary use? Are you looking for everyday wear, or are you looking for SHTF emergency? Something to be fashionable at the range with the other fellas and their "tactical" gear? Or something in between?

Depending on the planned use, the company might (or might not) be the right one for you to seek for a solution. I think it would be best to step back a bit - clarify where your head is at in terms of use - and then see if anyone can support (or refute) this company based on experiences related to that.

 

[03A3Sporter]

I have shot lots of expired vests and most of them still will stop bullets just fine for their given protection ratings.

Properly stored vests constructed with aramid fibers can last for a very long time. As can ceramic plates , steel will outlast all of them . Having said that I am not a fan of steel plates for a few reasons spalling being the main one it can still occur even if you have anti spalling coatings or protection.

On the rare occasion when I think I need something to stop a bullet its a soft vest. not saying there isn't a place for hard armor but most Americans thankfully do not need it on a daily basis.

 

[GURU]

A lot of bad advice in here.

Anybody that runs steel armor is wrong, and will more than likely never actually be in a gun fight, or actually conduct any kind of training or execute an event where they should need body armor to begin with.

AR Steel is for shooting on the range, not for stopping bullets on your chest.

I have a great idea, let me get some super heavy metal, and then spray it with truck bed liner, making it even heavier, and then wear in my plate carrier. Sounds great. Especially when you can buy something from RMA, or Hesco or another reputable company for just a little more money and be confident you won't be bleeding out of your neck after you take some steel cores to the chest because you were out acting like a fool one night.

A bunch of you guys will tell me I'm wrong and report my post, because this is NWfirearms.

 

[American123]

A lot of bad advice in here.

Anybody that runs steel armor is wrong, and will more than likely never actually be in a gun fight, or actually conduct any kind of training or execute an event where they should need body armor to begin with.

AR Steel is for shooting on the range, not for stopping bullets on your chest.

I have a great idea, let me get some super heavy metal, and then spray it with truck bed liner, making it even heavier, and then wear in my plate carrier. Sounds great. Especially when you can buy something from RMA, or Hesco or another reputable company for just a little more money and be confident you won't be bleeding out of your neck after you take some steel cores to the chest because you were out acting like a fool one night.

A bunch of you guys will tell me I'm wrong and report my post, because this is NWfirearms.

Tirades like this can have correct information while still missing major points.

The steel has a threshold for successful use, just like any other armor, there are parameters that it will be successful in, and parameters which it wont. As long as people are knowledgeable and willing to accept those thresholds. It's ignorant to disparage large swathes of people in this manner. They may get additional composite armor in the future, but if their initial dive into armor is spall liner coated steel, that will effectively and safely stop what is responsible for the majority of gun related homicides in this country, which is pistol and pistol calibers. It will also stop the majority of rifle related homicides and calibers used in this country.

The comment about "won't be in a gunfight" is another laughable thing, yes, thank God the majority of the population will never be in a gun fight, let alone, wearing armor to one, but with that logic - we should all just get rid of all our "self defense" guns also because statistically they will likely never be used.

 

[GURU]

Tirades like this can have correct information while still missing major points.

The steel has a threshold for successful use, just like any other armor, there are parameters that it will be successful in, and parameters which it wont. As long as people are knowledgeable and willing to accept those thresholds. It's ignorant to disparage large swathes of people in this manner. They may get additional composite armor in the future, but if their initial dive into armor is spall liner coated steel, that will effectively and safely stop what is responsible for the majority of gun related homicides in this country, which is pistol and pistol calibers. It will also stop the majority of rifle related homicides and calibers used in this country.

The comment about "won't be in a gunfight" is another laughable thing, yes, thank God the majority of the population will never be in a gun fight, let alone, wearing armor to one, but with that logic - we should all just get rid of all our "self defense" guns also because statistically they will likely never be used.

Say what you need to say to justify wasting your money on basically wearing a target that I have put hundreds of thousands of rounds on training while in the Military and not. There is no good reason to wear steel plates, period. I don't care what kind of statistics people can come out of the woodwork with about putting truck bed liner on steel. I have seen people get shot in their rifles and they were bleeding after because of the same principle.

Carrying a self defense weapon or even wearing a set of low vis armor is not remotely the same thing as wearing high vis kit in an offensive manner to achieve the affects of what I consider an actual gunfight.

So no it is not the same logic at all.

I advocate every single American that loves and cherishes their freedom to BUY ARMOR RIGHT NOW, BUT BUY THE RIGHT ARMOR.

 

[turbo_vanner]

A bunch of you guys will tell me I'm wrong and report my post, because this is NWfirearms.

Your opinion on armor is fine, but this part is really not needed.

 

[nk02442]

Your opinion on armor is fine, but this part is really not needed.

He is 100% spot on. I don't think there has ever been a gun board of such sensitive nacies and whiners in history of the internet.

 

[nk02442]

Say what you need to say to justify wasting your money on basically wearing a target that I have put hundreds of thousands of rounds on training while in the Military and not. There is no good reason to wear steel plates, period. I don't care what kind of statistics people can come out of the woodwork with about putting truck bed liner on steel. I have seen people get shot in their rifles and they were bleeding after because of the same principle.

Carrying a self defense weapon or even wearing a set of low vis armor is not remotely the same thing as wearing high vis kit in an offensive manner to achieve the affects of what I consider an actual gunfight.

So no it is not the same logic at all.

I advocate every single American that loves and cherishes their freedom to BUY ARMOR RIGHT NOW, BUT BUY THE RIGHT ARMOR.

People will always try to justify their inferior purchases, especially when it comes it defense and guns

Most barley know what end the bullets come out of. The rest (with zero actual combat experience mind you) will spew some BS they heard from a youtube channel or some equally ignorant "shooter", perpetuating the lies and myths.

Those of us who have worn armor as part of our profession, know the difference. You can't talk reason into the LARPers.

For those who actually care to learn, Buy these: Velocity Systems Special Threat Ceramic Plate - Green Tip Rated (R)

This is the Grail plate to buy if you can find them: 7.62x39 (API-BZ) Multi-Hit Stand-Alone Rifle Plate / Velocity Systems 7.62x39 (API-BZ) Multi-Hit Stand Alone Hard Armor Plate

 

[CamoDeafie]

Or get NIJ Level IV standalone ceramic plates.

 

[American123]

People will always try to justify their inferior purchases, especially when it comes it defense and guns

Most barley know what end the bullets come out of. The rest (with zero actual combat experience mind you) will spew some BS they heard from a youtube channel or some equally ignorant "shooter", perpetuating the lies and myths.

Those of us who have worn armor as part of our profession, know the difference. You can't talk reason into the LARPers.

For those who actually care to learn, Buy these: Velocity Systems Special Threat Ceramic Plate - Green Tip Rated (R)

This is the Grail plate to buy if you can find them: 7.62x39 (API-BZ) Multi-Hit Stand-Alone Rifle Plate / Velocity Systems 7.62x39 (API-BZ) Multi-Hit Stand Alone Hard Armor Plate

This is all cool, but being in the military (sadly) doesn't automatically equate to superb, or advanced gun knowledge or skills. The points made about armor can be 100% correct in their effectiveness, but still ignores that there is a viable ability to stop, without spall, within their threshold of effectiveness.

For me it goes into the category of 'relax'

 

[Tony617]

People will always try to justify their inferior purchases, especially when it comes it defense and guns

Most barley know what end the bullets come out of. The rest (with zero actual combat experience mind you) will spew some BS they heard from a youtube channel or some equally ignorant "shooter", perpetuating the lies and myths.

Those of us who have worn armor as part of our profession, know the difference. You can't talk reason into the LARPers.

For those who actually care to learn, Buy these: Velocity Systems Special Threat Ceramic Plate - Green Tip Rated (R)

This is the Grail plate to buy if you can find them: 7.62x39 (API-BZ) Multi-Hit Stand-Alone Rifle Plate / Velocity Systems 7.62x39 (API-BZ) Multi-Hit Stand Alone Hard Armor Plate

i shoot M193 would Velocity Systems stop M193 since says green tip which is M855.

 

[CamoDeafie]

This is all cool, but being in the military (sadly) doesn't automatically equate to superb, or advanced gun knowledge or skills. The points made about armor can be 100% correct in their effectiveness, but still ignores that there is a viable ability to stop, without spall, within their threshold of effectiveness.

For me it goes into the category of 'relax'

On the other hand, when it has been proven that M855A1 and M193 at higher velocities (say, from 20" barrels) are able to penetrate certain models of Level III armor plate, it makes more sense to get Level IV protection, be it ICW (with good Level 3A backers or vest) or standalone; since tests have proven that armor stopping .30-06 AP2 ammo also seems to stop M855A1 and M193, and that only the AP ammo from .338 Lapua Magnum or larger calibers are capable of penetrating the Level IV armor; seems that again, Level IV armor is really a good compromise between weight and protection. Sure it can be as heavy as AR500 Steel Level III, but it certainly can be lighter.. and providing dang good protection in terms of what it can stop.. makes more sense for the money, as there's more affordable Level IV ceramic plates than there are affordable ceramic Level III+/Special Threat plates.

 

[nk02442]

This is all cool, but being in the military (sadly) doesn't automatically equate to superb, or advanced gun knowledge or skills. The points made about armor can be 100% correct in their effectiveness, but still ignores that there is a viable ability to stop, without spall, within their threshold of effectiveness.

For me it goes into the category of 'relax'

Have you ever seen people shot with Armor on? Ever had to 9liine a buddy who was wearing the some of the finest armor available? Have you every Worn Armor everyday for a few years in a hot zone?

Stop trying to whitewash a proven and legit statement with " Uh ya know not everyone in the military.............." to justify your inferior purchasing.

Its absolute insanity that people would try and cheap out with these fake armor substitutes. It is a life saving device no different than a Safety Harness, Parachute, ect. You willing to jump a 40 year old soviet paracute sold at the local surplus store? Didn't think so.

Standards exist for a reason. Lessons are learned in blood.

 

[03A3Sporter]

A lot of bad advice in here.

Anybody that runs steel armor is wrong, and will more than likely never actually be in a gun fight, or actually conduct any kind of training or execute an event where they should need body armor to begin with.

AR Steel is for shooting on the range, not for stopping bullets on your chest.

I have a great idea, let me get some super heavy metal, and then spray it with truck bed liner, making it even heavier, and then wear in my plate carrier. Sounds great. Especially when you can buy something from RMA, or Hesco or another reputable company for just a little more money and be confident you won't be bleeding out of your neck after you take some steel cores to the chest because you were out acting like a fool one night.

A bunch of you guys will tell me I'm wrong and report my post, because this is NWfirearms.

I am not reporting your post, but you're still wrong . I was in the ARMY a LONG time , being in the military doesn't grant you any expertise on this subject . I worked contracts in both Iraq and Afghanistan and even worked in Sudan post COPA . Several of my co workers survived being shot while wearing steel armor . Others survived wearing ceramics and I also had co workers who aren't pumping oxygen any longer , some wore ceramics and some wore steel.

Nothing is as definitive or as simple as we would like it to be, especially being involved in swapping lead with other folks.

True SMEs in any subject matter context do not make definitive statements. I can respect your opinion for what it is however breadth of knowledge is limited to only what you have seen and experienced . Making abstract and definitive declarations doesn't lend credence to your argument.

 

[CamoDeafie]

To throw a wrench in the "all steel armors are inferior" argument... there is one NIJ0101.06 certified set of steel armor plates that can be found on the NIJ certified list under the brand Tactical Scorpion Gear.. whereas the AR500 certified armor models seem to all be rebranded ceramics or kevlar

https://www.justnet.org/app/tims/CPLReport.aspx

Edit. Also Armor Express has two products that looks like steel armor models (AR1000 and AR500 models)

 

[nk02442]

i shoot M193 would Velocity Systems stop M193 since says green tip which is M855.

Yea it should. M193 is actually a pretty nasty round on armor due to velocity. Velocity is what kills armor, all things being equal. Tungsten and steel penetrators add to the effectiveness but speed is what you are trying to stop. Its one of the reasons alot of these plates will stop 308/30-06 but 7.62x54 and 300WM will shred them. There is also the multi-hit resistance, because anything worth shooting once is worth shooting more.

Some of the things to look for in Armor.

Sizing -10x12 is great for small women but for Larger men you will want more coverage..which means more $$
Single or Multi Curve - Muli curve plates contour your body and are much more comfortable to wear
Thickness - Plates range from .25- 1+". You obviously want a thinner plate all things being equal
Threat Rating - Goes without saying. Pick the threat you need for your AO. We don't come under PMK or SVD fire in the US, so Lvl 4 ESAPI is not needed.
Weight - Ligher weight = More Money. Moving in full armor sucks as is, but high quality lightweight armor sucks much less
Brand - Buy from a proven brand that has a track record of making armor for Mil/LE. Armor made by fly by night places and not offically tested, nor used in numbers is a liability. Who knows if it will work. Getting shot is not the time to learn if your Plates actually work.
Age- Certain Plates break down over time. Carefull handling can prolong this
Material- Lots of stuff out there. UPHE and other lightweight plastics are not as resistant as newer ceramics and super materials.

 

[GURU]

I am not reporting your post, but you're still wrong . I was in the ARMY a LONG time , being in the military doesn't grant you any expertise on this subject . I worked contracts in both Iraq and Afghanistan and even worked in Sudan post COPA . Several of my co workers survived being shot while wearing steel armor . Others survived wearing ceramics and I also had co workers who aren't pumping oxygen any longer , some wore ceramics and some wore steel.

Nothing is as definitive or as simple as we would like it to be, especially being involved in swapping lead with other folks.

True SMEs in any subject matter context do not make definitive statements. I can respect your opinion for what it is however breadth of knowledge is limited to only what you have seen and experienced . Making abstract and definitive declarations doesn't lend credence to your argument.

Yes, people survive when getting shot while wearing steel. Most bullets or blast frag will not go through AR Steel, I'm not arguing that. I'm saying there is no reason to wear it, especially with what is available out on the market today.

For anybody else that brings up the Military superiority complex, I agree with you. 99 percent of the folks in the Military don't know what they are talking about, they are a bunch of clowns. 1 percent of the Military has the context to speak on it. That 1 percent is still more than the people that are talking second hand stories and hypotheticals.

 

[nk02442]

I am not reporting your post, but you're still wrong . I was in the ARMY a LONG time , being in the military doesn't grant you any expertise on this subject . I worked contracts in both Iraq and Afghanistan and even worked in Sudan post COPA . Several of my co workers survived being shot while wearing steel armor . Others survived wearing ceramics and I also had co workers who aren't pumping oxygen any longer , some wore ceramics and some wore steel.

Nothing is as definitive or as simple as we would like it to be, especially being involved in swapping lead with other folks.

True SMEs in any subject matter context do not make definitive statements. I can respect your opinion for what it is however breadth of knowledge is limited to only what you have seen and experienced . Making abstract and definitive declarations doesn't lend credence to your argument.

Your experience is from a time that predates REAL armor, which makes your opinion and declaration of the subject, outdated and irrelevant.

What kind of nonsensical logic is " I know people shot with steel who lived, and Shot with Ceramics who died". Becuase we all know the only variables in combat are the types of plates people are wearing...

SMH...

 

[nk02442]

To throw a wrench in the "all steel armors are inferior" argument... there is one NIJ0101.06 certified set of steel armor plates that can be found on the NIJ certified list under the brand Tactical Scorpion Gear.. whereas the AR500 certified armor models seem to all be rebranded ceramics or kevlar

https://www.justnet.org/app/tims/CPLReport.aspx

Edit. Also Armor Express has two products that looks like steel armor models (AR1000 and AR500 models)

"Rebranded" in the armor world means it didn't past testing, or had a bad batch of materials, or can't get certified.

When companies can sell every plate they make at full retail and have backlogs for months/years....you think they want to wholesale/discount their product?

 

[CamoDeafie]

We don't come under PMK or SVD fire in the US, so Lvl 4 ESAPI is not needed

Plenty of .30-06 hunting rifles in the U.S. and probably a warehouse (or three) worth of surplus AP .30-06 ammo out there...

"Rebranded" in the armor world means it didn't past testing, or had a bad batch of materials, or can't get certified.

When companies can sell every plate they make at full retail and have backlogs for months/years....you think they want to wholesale/discount their product?

Looking at the NIJ certified list again, I see a lot of identical model names sold by different companies. For example... RMA's 1155 plates and Hesco's 4401 series, as well as the HighCom 4S17 series. There are not as many armor companies making their own, as there are those who sells armor made by specific companies.

Edit. It would probably be more accurate to say that the NIJ list identifies distributors and retailers of armor