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Understanding mass murder

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by Just Jim, Jan 12, 2013.

  1. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    Anti-Depressants linked to mass murders

    "Ran across a bit of research dug up by the late John Noveske that is amazingly interesting. This was posted just a few days prior to his death. Thankfully he did a great deal of research into this, and really makes you wonder. From the research done, it appears nearly every single person involved in mass murder in the United States in the past 10 to 12 years has been on some sort of prescription anti depressant or SSRI.

    Standard Gravure shooting - First known shooting with ties to Prozac. Joseph Wesbecker kills 12, injures 9.

    Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold’s medical records have never been made available to the public.

    Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

    Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

    Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

    Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

    Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

    Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

    Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.

    A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

    Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..

    A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

    Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

    TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

    Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

    James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

    Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

    Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California

    Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

    Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

    Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic’s file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

    Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

    Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

    Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

    Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

    Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family’s Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

    Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara’s parents said “…. the damn doctor wouldn’t take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil…”)
    and more...
     
  2. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,
    (Gareth’s father could not accept his son’s death and killed himself.)

    Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family’s detached garage.

    Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

    Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

    Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

    A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

    Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and “other drugs for the conditions.”

    Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.

    Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

    Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.
    Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

    Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his
    New York high school.

    Missing from list… 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds….

    What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21…… killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az

    What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24….. killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado

    What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or

    What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct
    Roberts is the only one that I haven’t heard about being on drugs of some kind.
     
    Capn Jack and (deleted member) like this.
  3. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    Most places the tapwater has enough run-off/residual pharmacological goodies in it to make Timothy Leary see the Jesus.
     
  4. jfw

    jfw Clackamas county Active Member

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    Its more likely that it has to do with what ever underlying condition the drugs were trying to treat. Lots of people take these drugs with no problems.
     
  5. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler wa Well-Known Member

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    I have suspected this to be playing a factor as well...excellent work putting some data behind it. The use of the psychosemantic drugs has become so prevalent; I am amazed at how many people are currently or have been on these. Much like antibiotics, they are, IMO, being way over prescribed. Perhaps more troubling is what is the reason behind people needing medication that alters the brains firing order.

    I saw a study that correlated the launch of the internet with increased levels of child behavior issues. Could IBM, Microsoft and Google be to this epidemic, what S&W, Ruger and CZ are to the mass murder epidemic? Everyone wants to focus on the end of the problem -- a bullet leaving a barrel. Perhaps more emphasis should be on the source of the problem...just sayin.
     
  6. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    Odd our kids are pumped full of these drugs while at the same time they make the schools gun free killing zones.
     
  7. swoop

    swoop Milwaukie, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    So why then didn't we see so many of these mass murders in the 50's 60's & 70's before these drugs were so widely prescribed?
     
    chemist and (deleted member) like this.
  8. jfw

    jfw Clackamas county Active Member

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    I don't think the "mass murders" have increased over the years. I guess it also depends on how we are defining mass murder and the people who are participating in such events.
     
  9. jfw

    jfw Clackamas county Active Member

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  10. DAPSRT

    DAPSRT Dallas, Or Active Member

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    I think there can be arguements both ways. The main thing i think is important to remember is that they were not likely just arbitrarily put on these drugs...there was a reason for it. My experience tells me that there is not a one size fits all med for every person. Sometimes different people need different meds.

    What i can tell you is that the moral compass of this country is spinning in circles. The prevalence of movies, video games and such that are violent in nature make it socially acceptable (in the minds of some) that this behavior is ok. Don't get me wrong, violent movies and games DO NOT make these people do things any more than guns run around shooting people all by themselves. It is, however, a part of the equation.

    It is interesting to me that the rapid decline of morals coincided with the separation of church and state and the removal of many of the priniples our founding fathers intended for us to have in place.

    Be dilligent in maintaining your personal safety, get help for those who need it, let someone know if a person is making homicidal threats...they should not be taken lightly. I would rather try to stop a killing before it happens than clean up afterward!
     
  11. jfw

    jfw Clackamas county Active Member

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    Dapsrt,


    Very good points. There are so many factors that could play into these things. The rediculous thing is how they focus on the tool and not spending that wasted time on the real issue.
     
  12. mud

    mud brush prairie, wa Member

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    That can be true but also i personally know 5 people who were just depressed and after zoloft became suicidal.They dont list it as a side efect because in there opinion if you are depressed you are all ready suicidal
     
  13. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    Two gun makers killed in two days, and no answers (Photos)

    On Friday, January 4, the owner of Noveske Rifleworks, 36-year-old John Noveske, was killed in a single-vehicle accident on Highway 260 in Oregon.

    ...

    Only a day earlier, the lifeless body of 32-year-old Keith Ratliff was found at FPS Industries in Franklin County, Ga., just outside of Carnesville. He had been shot once in the head, according to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation.

    Ratliff was well known for a series of videos he produced
     
  14. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    Because up until the 70's they locked the dangerously crazy up, instead of sending them home with a bottle of pills.
     
  15. SynapticSilence

    SynapticSilence Battle Ground, WA Well-Known Member

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    The first effect an antidepressant has is activation. In short, the person taking it who wasn't able to do anything because of his depression now has the energy he lacked before. If his mood isn't elevated when that occurs, which is something that should be monitored by family and friends, he can use that energy to follow through on his plan. That's why it happens. The drugs won't cause someone to kill himself who wasn't suicidal in the first place. As for antipsychotic meds, people get them because their experience of reality is already altered, as is their judgment. I've been working with severely mentally ill people for 20 years and never saw someone hospitalized and homicidal because they took their meds as prescribed, but I've seen thousands of them there because they thought they could stop them and not decompensate. Correlations mean zero in terms of causation. That's probably the first thing you learn as a researcher. Unfortunately the original poster missed that class.

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  16. SynapticSilence

    SynapticSilence Battle Ground, WA Well-Known Member

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    And ZigZagZeke hit the nail on the head. When the "deinstitutionalization" movement began under Reagan, the plan was to replace intermediate care facilities with outpatient networks and wrap-around support services after people were released. But that was also the beginning of the anti-big-government movement. So the networks never were created because it was too expensive. Now we have people in ERs at the cost to the taxpayer of $1000 a day. Some savings. Shortsighted BS is what it was and still is. All those homeless mentally ill people you see now? Well, that's where they came from.

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