Trying to Decide Between a Lever Action 308, 30-30 & 45-70

[PNWguy]

I've owned the Marlin 1894 in .357 Magnum and .45 Colt, and I've shot my dad's 1894 in .44 Magnum. My brother has the 1895 Guide Gun in .45-70 govt. and I have a Winchester 1885 high wall clone in .45-70 govt.

The softest shooting is the 1894 in .357. My kids loved shooting it with .38 special loads and even 158gr .357 magnum loads were super mild. Next up in recoil is the 1894 in .45 Colt. I reload for it and even my hottest 300gr hardcast bear loads are comfortable.

Then there is the .44 Magnum. For some reason, it kicks pretty good and is unpleasant. Next up the recoil ladder is the 1885 high wall. With 515gr loads for shooting steel at 525yds, it is about the same as the .44 Magnum. No idea why the .44 Magnum hurts so much, lol.

Finally, there is the .45-70 govt shooting off-the-shelf Hornady 350gr FTX loads. It hurts the most. My brother's is a JM stamped model and is a very well made and finished rifle. Perfect for elk and bear.

But it is simply too high of recoil for more than a few rounds. And my brother and I are both 6'2" and around 300lbs.

Get an off-the-shelf Marlin 336 in .30-30 for $400 that you inspect closely for aligned sights, proper rifling, proper functioning, etc. and you'll get your lever-action fix for cheap.

 

[The Heretic]

Weight has a lot to do with recoil, then there is the buttpad.

My Rossi .44 mag is the lightest and smallest of my lever actions and it has a steel butt plate, so yeah, I am going to feel it when I finally shoot it (I am going to buy some plinking ammo first, not waste my high end self-defense ammo in it).

 

[G8rHunter]

I talked to a salesman yesterday about a 30-30, and he suggested getting a .357 mag with the versatility of .38 specials for target practice. He claimed the range was about the same as the 30-30. I will have to see what the reviews say to verify.

 

[The Heretic]

Not even the .44 mag has the same range as the .30-30.

Closer up, it is about as effective, but the .30-30 has range advantages over the .357 and .44 mag.

Just compare the ballistics charts - both drop and windage are not going to be as good simply due to the BC of the projectile. The Hornady .30-30 160 gr FTX has a BC of .330, while the Hornady pistol FTX bullets in .357 and .44 have BCs less than half that.

As the range increases the BC will tell the tale - even if you could get the .357 mag to match the .30-30 velocities - which is unlikely.

PCCs are ok and have their advantages, but ballistics and range compared to rifle cartriges are not one of them.

Lever-Action Ballistics: .30-30 vs .357 Magnum - The Truth About Guns

 

[G8rHunter]

Just compare the ballistics charts - both drop and windage are not going to be as good simply due to the BC of the projectile. The Hornady .30-30 160 gr FTX has a BC of .330, while the Hornady pistol FTX bullets in .357 and .44 have BCs less than half that.

I wondered about velocity and penetration and this article confirms it. Thanks.

 

[rodjw]

I wondered about velocity and penetration and this article confirms it. Thanks.

Paul Harrell has good video showing the drop at 200yds.
Lever Action Rifles: .30-30 vs .44 Magnum

 

[PNWguy]

I talked to a salesman yesterday about a 30-30, and he suggested getting a .357 mag with the versatility of .38 specials for target practice. He claimed the range was about the same as the 30-30. I will have to see what the reviews say to verify.

I wonder about the stereotype of gun store salesmen being the most ignorant and dangerous people in society and then see an example like that and have that stereotype confirmed.

 

[The Heretic]

Here it is even simpler - inches of drop:

.30-30
yards 50 100 150 200 250 300
150gr 0.2 zero -2.4 -7.6 -16.1 -28.8

.44 mag
yards 50 100 150 200 250 300
240gr zero -2.1 -8.7 -21.2 -40.6 -67.7

 

[PNWguy]

Lever-Action Ballistics: .30-30 vs .357 Magnum - The Truth About Guns

Conclusions:

The .357 Magnum basically doubles its kinetic energy when it's fired from a carbine, and it almost earns a promotion to the Big Leagues of rifle ballistics. But not quite. The result is substantially more powerful than a .30 Carbine, but even on paper it takes the most exotic .357 loads to equal the most pedestrian .30-30 loadings. And the .30-30 still dramatically outperforms these exotic .357s at longer ranges.

If you plan to use your gun on bigger game or at ranges past 100 or 150 yards, the .30-30 is your clear choice. While the 16″ Trapper is very handy, consider an 18″ barrel which will give you an extra round of magazine capacity and a small ballistic increase.

If your gun is likely to be used primarily for recreational shooting, hunting medium game within 100 yards, or defensive use, the .357 is superior. Its higher capacity and lower recoil are more suited to such applications where the extra power and penetration of the .30-30 would be wasted.

 

[hatchj]

Im not familiar with a lever .308. I assume they don't make them because all of the rounds have points that could set off the round in front of it if stacked in a tube.

That's why .308's are either simi automatic or bolt action that feed from a mag of some kind (fixed or detachable).

The 30-30 was made to stack in a tube of a lever action.

.308 recoil isn't bad for most people.

If your going to get a lever gun for fun, I would suggest a .22lr or .357(so you can shoot .38sp as well). Would be cheaper then a 30-30 for ammo.

If your dear hunting only then buy the 30-30 if you gotta have a lever gun.

Browning makes a lever action that uses a box magazine instead of a tube, also made in 308. Can't remember the model name...BLR?

 

[OutwardHound]

Yes I had a Savage Model 99 years back, lever action .308. It had an internal rotary magazine so could shoot spitzer bullets. Sorry I had to sell it.

 

[No_Regerts]

I am new to this forum and currently own a semi-automatic shotgun. I am retired and finding out I love guns! In the next few months, I would like to buy either a .308 or a 30-30. I am considering my next gun may have something to do with my son, since he will inherit it. He prefers the 30-30, because of the low-recoil, but admits he is not acquainted with the .308. If I choose the .308, he can't complain because he will eventually be getting it for free. I will use one of them as a deer gun, and I'm not sure that I would ever go after Elk. I have always had a love for a lever action rifle, so I want a lever action in the worst way. I am leaning towards the 30-30, but I wanted to put this out there for someone to help me decide. I haven't decided on a brand yet. I would like to get a Henry, because of gun quality, but the Henry rifle doesn't have a side-loader. The Winchester is over-priced in my opinion, thus it comes down to the Mossberg 464 or Marlin 336. I'm leaning towards the Mossberg because it's totally made in the US. I am thinking the 45-70 is way more gun than I will need but feel free to talk about the 45-70, if that is your favorite rifle.

I own all of the above, though my 308s are semi-auto and bolt action. The 30-30 is a capable deer cartridge and if ranges are kept reasonable, say 150 yards and closer, can work for elk.

The 45-70 is a lot more recoil and horsepower. It requires you understand its trajectory because you're lobbing lead. For me, its in the same class as shotgun slugs. It can be used to shoot much further, but mostly in single shots.

Both my leaverguns are Winchesters. An 1886 and 94. They are strong actions and if you compare them side by side with Marlins, you'll see the difference in quality. 1886s are expensive, but decent used 94s can be found around $600 for pre-64s. They place where the Marlin makes more sense is if a scope is to be used. I'm not big on scopes on leverguns, but a Marlin 336 or 1895 with a low powered scope would be ok.

 

[waglockfan]

No love for the .444 Marlin?

Picked up mine, JM stamped, for $400 OTD. Fun cartridge. Same bullet diameter as the .44 Magnum. Hornady Superformance is pretty stout and quite accurate. I have yet to try the Buffalo Bore loads. I believe those will do fine as well.

Like it's cousin the .450 Marlin, it's just not as popular as the 45-70, unfortunately.

 

[G8rHunter]

Anyone ever shot the Ruger mini-30 that fire's a Russian 7.62×39mm? I shot this rifle last Christmas and had a hard time laying it down! if you have shot the Ruger mini-30, what other rifle caliber would you compare it to? 30-30? .308?

 

[tkdguy]

Browning had made a sweet and super accurate 308 lever. I think there is a Browning Long Action lever as well. I like the 308 because it is a government round as well. Something to think about should times get tuff.

 

[G8rHunter]

Browning had made a sweet and super accurate 308 lever. I think there is a Browning Long Action lever as well. I like the 308 because it is a government round as well. Something to think about should times get tuff.

I must say, the BLR .308 is one beautiful rifle!!! I love the looks of the 45-70, but the recoil is nasty! One poster showed pictures of his 15 old daughter going through a box and a half of shells, but, darn, my shotgun is enough recoil!

 

[Dwesson]

No love for the .444 Marlin?

Picked up mine, JM stamped, for $400 OTD. Fun cartridge. Same bullet diameter as the .44 Magnum. Hornady Superformance is pretty stout and quite accurate. I have yet to try the Buffalo Bore loads. I believe those will do fine as well.

Like it's cousin the .450 Marlin, it's just not as popular as the 45-70, unfortunately.

I've been eying a .450 Marlin complete Upper for an AR10/LR-308 pattern lower. Looks fun!

 

[PNWguy]

I must say, the BLR .308 is one beautiful rifle!!! I've love the looks of the 45-70, but the recoil is nasty! One poster showed pictures of his 15 old daughter going through a box and a half of shells, but, darn, my shotgun is enough recoil!

I shot my dad's .45-90 in a BPCR 1000yd match in Phoenix once. That was some impressive recoil...

 

[The Heretic]

Anyone ever shot the Ruger mini-30 that fire's a Russian 7.62×39mm? I shot this rifle last Christmas and had a hard time laying it down! if you have shot the Ruger mini-30, what other rifle caliber would you compare it to? 30-30? .308?

.30-30 is the closest ballistically - except the .30-30 is better with heavier projectiles.

An non-Chinese SKS with an AK mag conversion is probably just as good as the mini-30 - maybe.

 

[G8rHunter]

I must say, I am getting quite the education. Now I know why the .444 Marlin was brought up, because it was supposed to be the rifle that replaced the .45-70. Clearly, the Marlin brand is no longer the same product. I am not sure Winchester makes the quality product as it did in the past. Either a Browning or Henry rifle seem to be producing the top of the line rifles. I am sure quite a few people will disagree. So, convince me that your favorite brand of rifle exceeds the Browning or Henry?