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Truth vs. Balony?

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by curling leaf, Jun 21, 2012.

  1. curling leaf

    curling leaf Jacksonville, OR Member

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    For the last couple of weeks I've been busy learning what I can about affordable, reputable .22 Rimfire rifles. In no time, one reads of Ruger 1022 vs Marlin 60, etc. Then, as you attempt to parse the truth and weed out the bravado, etc, a common theme appears. Gun enthusiasts tend to give good grades to most everything! Pick a rifle or scope and then go read some reviews. What you'll notice is that just about everything seems to get 4-5 stars (out of a total of 5). I think this is because we become emotionally attached to our things. A gun isn't just a gun, but it is a reflection of how we envision our guns, what our heros used in the movies, Who we would like to be, and so on. Ammo is the exception. Ranting about ammo is commonplace. How then, does someone get to the truth? I think I've seen more positive reviews for cheap scopes than expensive ones!

    I bought a Henry H001 a couple of weeks ago, and have enjoyed it a lot. I don't hunt, per se, but I do exterminate problematic rodents on my land here. Otherwise, I'm just a 55-year fart with time on his hands and some curiosity. Which leads me to my question regarding accuracy. If I am shooting at 25-30 yards 95% of the time, will I find that I can do better with target shooting with a Marlin XT (or even a 60), a CZ 455, or a savage MK II over my Henry? In other words, if I buy one of these rifles (in an effort to see how accurately I can shoot, while not breaking the bank) can I necessarily expect better results, given the shooting distance, or is it not the case? Also, is my inherent marksmanship more of a factor than these rifles I might buy and shoot?

    I'd like to have some fun with seeing how accurate I can get, and I would like an appropriate rifle for the task. The only hiccup is that I want to be able to use quiet ammo. That's what I like about the Henry...it will fire shorts, longs, and LR. AND...it doesn't possess one of those hideous synthetic black stocks. No offense to those who own them.

    Comments welcome and appreciated.

    Brian
    So Oregon
     
  2. westcoastal

    westcoastal north coast of oregon Active Member

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    if you're shooting cb caps or other sub sonic ammo more than not. you may want to look into bolt action. more accurate for the most part, and semi's generally won't cycle with the weeker ammo. there are alot of old solid bolt rifles used for the same money as the 60 or 10/22. with single shot, mag fed and tube fed. i've got several old remington's that shoot great, consistantly.
     
  3. Whaler

    Whaler Sequim, WA Well-Known Member

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    Hi Brian; i am similar to you but a 20 year older fart that is getting back into shooting. I have been researching .22 rifles for a couple months and firmly believe that a CZ 455 American is the ultimate plinker. That said, last week I bought a Henry H001T Frontier and took it to the range today. That rifle is just plain fun to shoot and I believe it is more accurate than I can shoot. I haven't shot a rifle in nearly 30 years and was having trouble seeing the factory sights but turned in one pretty good group. I have a Marbles tang peep sight on order and that should help out. I am glad that I went for the Henry besides that it looks good next to my pre 64 Winchester 94.
    Dick
    HenryTarget2.jpg
     
  4. edogg

    edogg Western Washington Active Member

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    Weeding out internet reviews to get to the truth is next to impossible. When it comes to guns, I've found that most guns are more accurate than the shooter. The exceptions are guns that are of known low quality universally. So get the one the feels best in your hands and suits your needs best.

    Sent from my T9295 using Board Express
     
  5. DinhRose

    DinhRose Austin, Texas (Ex-Pat of SE PDX) Active Member

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    I agree. Nothing beats actually holding the firearm and when you do you'll realize quickly which is the right one for you. If you go looking for trouble you'll find it and if you go looking for praises you'll find that too in term of reviews. These two opposing view essentially proves that some angry and overly excited folks posted something on the internet. The majority of other owners are just happy with what they got and never posted a thing. Guns are more accurate than the shooter and they all generally work pretty well.
     
  6. bikejunkie

    bikejunkie Salem Well-Known Member

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    Well I have a Marlin 7000 (discontinued version of the 795 with a heavy bull barrel) and my wife has a Ruger 10/22- both are tack drivers from 100yds in with pretty inexpensive glass. Can't really go wrong with either, but I know my wife's came with a wood stock (she doesn't like synthetic stocks either)
     
  7. curling leaf

    curling leaf Jacksonville, OR Member

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    I don't mind manually ejecting cb shells from a Marlin 60 (using the bolt-like knob on it...same amount of work as using a bolt action), or just using a bolt action rifle. I do not want a single-fire hand-fed rifle. What I don't know is this: will a bolt action rifle that is magazine fed (or even tube fed) feed okay, say, with a CCI CB short? Or even a CB long??? Does anyone have a bolt action rifle that they use such ammo in? I'd like to hear from you if you do. If the answer is yes, then maybe you can answer this question for me: the Marlin website make s point out of stating that their XT-22 is the only bolt action rifle that can shoot LR, S and L. Obviously there are lever action rifles, like the Henry that can shoot all three, but according to Marlin, no other manufacturers offer a bolt action that can shoot all three.

    Does anyone reading this ever shoot shorts or longs in their Marlin 60? If so, do they feed? Do they eject manually?
     
  8. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    In your position, and with your desires to see if "notable or measurable" improvement can be had, my recommendation would be to seek out someone with a VERY accurate bolt .22 (such as an Anschutz or the like), shoot it yourself off sandbags comparing to your Henry. Then you will know the full range of possibilites. I will be honest with you: at 25-30 yards (your stated "90% situation") with comparable sighting equipment, the difference may be less noticeable than some may think.

    At 50 yards, the guns will begin to sort themselves out noticeably.

    If you like lever guns, and you wish for the best accuracy obtainable, with the option to cycle and shoot shorts,longs, or long rifle ammo, the Marlin 39A was considered the most accurate sporting .22 (of ANY type action) for many, many years. The Browning T-Bolt claimed the title after that, and now many of the quality bolt offerings can do (very slightly) better. I mentioned Anschutz. CZ guns are gaining a reputation quickly. The Ruger 77-22 is a fine choice. Even the "economy" bolt offerings such as from Savage and Marlin (especially with the heavy bull barrels) will allow you a noticeable improvement over your Henry. All these bolt guns will chamber shorts. Most will not cycle them through the magazine, but it is not a very good idea to feed a gun .22 shorts if the express purpose is accuracy. The chamber becomes fouled (from the little bullet jumping that flatland to the rifling), and unless cleaned judiciously, accuracy with the premium Long Rifle ammo will drop off.

    Which brings us to something AT LEAST as important as rifle choice: AMMO CHOICE. .22's are VERY persnickity about what you feed them. Even identical guns, made the same day at the same factory can show a marked preference for different ammo. If you have not purchased some high-dollar target ammo for your Henry (Eley, etc.), you should try this, and compare (off sandbags) against the "econo-bulk-Mega-lo-mart" ammo. This will be a REAL EYE OPENER!!! It may convince you no new rifle is needed.

    But, your Henry may not like high-dollar Ely stuff. Maybe it likes cheaper (but still target-grade) ammo like Winchester T22's. If you want hunting ammo, and absolutely insist on the high-velocity stuff, you relegate yourself to (usually) less accuracy than you get with target-grade ammo, but it STILL PAYS TO TRY MANY TYPES!!! Federal Hi-Power Hollowpoints (not the bulk-pack stuff) have a reputation for accuracy where high velocity is desired. CCI Mini-Mags work well in a number of my guns (and better yet, media testing shows this ammo to be more reliable than other hollowpoint ammo for expansion). Most normally, accuracy drops off significantly when one chooses the "Hyper-Velocity" stuff (like Stingers and Yellowjackets). But then again, there are a few rifles out there that like that stuff.
     
    Varmit and (deleted member) like this.
  9. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    You want really accurate with iron sights? Run down a MAS 45 military trainer. It's a true and literal tackdriver. I have literally shot the carpet tack out of a post-it at 25 yards standing offhand

    Ditto to the try different ammo .. most 22s are finicky that way. My MAS 45 likes the Eley stuff best
     
  10. chemist

    chemist Beaverton OR Well-Known Member

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    At 30 yards the gun is hardly the limiting factor. A real problem is the inherent cheapness of rimfire ammo. The guys over at rimfirecentral.com seem to agree that Federal Automatch is the way to go, but of course it's a supersonic .22LR round, so it's not quiet. And their idea of accurate shooting is dime-sized groups at 50 yards, which is way out of my league.

    For quiet rifle shooting I use an SWR can with Aguila subsonic rounds, and their accuracy is lousy. The Aquila SSS 60 grain stuff is even worse. But they're both better than CB caps, which are just plain terrible in the accuracy department. Regular bulk-packed Federal HP is much better - and plenty good enough for my uses and abilities - except for that supersonic 'crack.'

    But inside a hundred feet against a stationary rat-sized target, you ought to be able to hit it 100% of the time off iron sights with any old kind of ammo, even through glasses as thick as mine.
     
  11. curling leaf

    curling leaf Jacksonville, OR Member

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    Nice job, Dick.
    Question: why'd you buy the Henry Frontier, if you were convinced the CZ was the best plinker out there?
     
  12. curling leaf

    curling leaf Jacksonville, OR Member

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    So far, I have used CCI CB shorts and longs, as well as CCI's Quiet-22. The shorts seem to be the least accurate. BTW, I shoot standing, without support. I practice this way, because when a ground squirrel stands atop my wood pile at 6pm, I want to be able to get my rifle and shoot asap--not set up a bipod, a sandbag, etc. BTW, normally when I open the door and step onto the deck, that's all it takes for the squirrel to skiddadle. Another victory for the squirrel. I'm sure he tells all his squirrel buddies. Goshderndangburn sonofa #*&#!

    I also tried the Subsonic 22's, which were the loudest ammo I have tried.

    Brian
     
  13. bikejunkie

    bikejunkie Salem Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like somebody needs to install a firing port in their door... I pretty much always run CCI mini-mags in all my 22's
     
  14. Whaler

    Whaler Sequim, WA Well-Known Member

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    I think it was the cowboy in me that made the decision. After I hone my skills with the Henry I may buy a CZ but for now I am very happy with the Henry.
     
  15. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    CCI subsonics are so quiet I do not wear hearing protection
     
  16. RVTECH

    RVTECH LaPine Well-Known Member

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    And probably still in the top five (if not still the most accurate) I have a Golden 39A and have made what some have thought would be impossible shots with a .22. It is fairly heavy and unwieldy for a .22 but that is part of the reason for it's incredible accuracy. If you like lever guns, and can find one for a good price, snap it up. I routinely refuse offers for mine.
     
  17. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Two in the stable here. Mine's one a buddy found rusted beyond recognition, buttstock broken in a vacated rental house (I overhauled it, and it came out pretty good)! The other one is the girl's: kinda schmancy:

    P7030103.jpg

    P7030108.jpg
     
  18. OregonPlinker

    OregonPlinker Creswell, Or Active Member

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    I didnt see any replys about the model 60 cycling longs or shorts. I know this thread is a few months old but here is my experience. Love my model 60 but it doesnt like longs at all. It will fire them but not well and the manual ejection isnt really functional on mine. Even with unfired rounds it takes a few cycles of the bolt to get it to grab and extract. I have never tried shorts. My 10/22's manually eject a lot better than the 60... I like the 60 better out of the box and it isnt as picky as my 10/22's when it comes to ammo. Ive put around 15,000 rounds through my 60 and it is my go to pest gun around my place. It stays loaded all the time. When I do empty it for whatever reason I dump the shells out of the tube and shoot the one out of the chamber cause the manual ejection really does suck...
     
  19. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe the 60 was designed for anything other than Long Rifle. Your ejection problems are most likely related to having shot Longs in the gun, fouling the chamber a bit prior to the rifling, and/or a weak extractor just from plain wear. Extractors are available and cheap, and a good chamber scrubbing (and sticking to Long Rifles ONLY) will put your good 60 back in the pink.
     
  20. 101Mike

    101Mike WV New Member

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    Its your money, buy whatever makes you happy, and are satisfied with !