trust your life to factory ammo?

[Misterbill]

Show me one, just one. Especially west of NYC

NJ vs. Bias, NH vs. James Kennedy.

There was another case in California many years ago though I don't remember the case name.

The transcripts of every self-defense trial and grand jury investigation are not available on the internet. nor are all civil cases.

You will go to trial, criminal or civil, based on the TOTALITY of circumstances and whether opposing counsel thinks they are likely to prevail. I can very easily see a case where the prosecution was alleging you used excessive or unnecessary force where everything that makes it look as though you were reckless or acted with malice would be introduced.

Trying to take any one thing and saying "This is the one thing that will hang you" is usually an overstatement. But it's never ONE thing that does get you. It's 20 different things all taken together . Maybe it's that one juror who was convinced your credibility wasn't so hot, or that you were a "gun-nut," who will take that one question and run with it as they vote to convict.

If you're comfortable betting that you will never be involved in a shooting that's in any way questionable, go for it. Put skulls on your nickel plated pimp gun, put "We don't call 911" stickers on your front door etc.

I will continue to advise my students to follow prudent, well established legal advice and not give an overzealous prosecutor ANYTHING "extra" to use against them.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

NJ vs. Bias, NH vs. James Kennedy.

There was another case in California many years ago though I don't remember the case name.

The transcripts of every self-defense trial and grand jury investigation are not available on the internet. nor are all civil cases.

You will go to trial, criminal or civil, based on the TOTALITY of circumstances and whether opposing counsel thinks they are likely to prevail. I can very easily see a case where the prosecution was alleging you used excessive or unnecessary force where everything that makes it look as though you were reckless or acted with malice would be introduced.

Trying to take any one thing and saying "This is the one thing that will hang you" is usually an overstatement. But it's never ONE thing that does get you. It's 20 different things all taken together . Maybe it's that one juror who was convinced your credibility wasn't so hot, or that you were a "gun-nut," who will take that one question and run with it as they vote to convict.

If you're comfortable betting that you will never be involved in a shooting that's in any way questionable, go for it. Put skulls on your nickel plated pimp gun, put "We don't call 911" stickers on your front door etc.

I will continue to advise my students to follow prudent, well established legal advice and not give an overzealous prosecutor ANYTHING "extra" to use against them.

Like I said, west of NYC

NJ even bans factory hollowpoints for self defense. It isn't even America. I doubt a single juror on that trial was a gun owner and 7 out of 8 were antis. I live in Washington State, USA

 

[Kevatc]

I will continue to advise my students to follow prudent, well established legal advice and not give an overzealous prosecutor ANYTHING "extra" to use against them.

When it comes to a self defense shoot what is "extra"? Caliber? Bullet type? Mag capacity? You reload as a hobby? You have a dozen guns? You go to the range frequently?

Are any of those factors more important than if you were afraid for your life and the bad guy had opportunity and means?

 

[Steve06]

Kevatc, I believe the factors include one more; means, opportunity and intent.

 

[madcratebuilder]

If you are involved in a jury trail after a shooting, what ammo you used is the least of your worries.

 

[lamrith]

Kevatc, I believe the factors include one more; means, opportunity and intent.

I would strike Intent as a "requirement", we as humans have no idea on intent of another person, unless they flat out say it. In a perfect world they may say it, but at the same time, they are in your home uninvited, that portays a lack of care for your bodily safety and thus intent, but that is a very loose and grey way to imply intent.

If I hear a noise in the house at night, arm and open my door to see someone I do not know reaching for my sons door I will shoot, no announce, no warning. I have no way of proving thier actual intent, they could think the house is empty, and have no intent on harming anyone, could be a homeless person looking for a warm blanket. But thier actions put me in fear for my son, so I am then justified for shooting, even though they have no intent to harm.

Here in WA the key is to be sure that you can portray to the prosecutor or any "reasonable person" that you had an imminent fear of bodily injury to you or another person. That should be an easy to convey fear of harm to the DA or any reasonable person, and likely would consider that "justifiable Homicide" per Wa Law. Barring some other discrepancy (unloading all 17rounds after they are down or as they run out the front yard) that will over-ride whether you used a 9mm with FMJ, 12a with 00, or an baseball bat. Tool in the situation will have less bearing than your actions...

 

[Kevatc]

Kevatc, I believe the factors include one more; means, opportunity and intent.

Agreed. I was thinking from the perspective that if you were afraid for your life such that you felt your only recourse was to shoot then the bad guy had intent.

 

[G1GRANDEUR]

No matter what ammo you carry, you can't expect to them go bang every time, this is why people spend their time/money into training.

 

[coop44]

I carry my hand loaded ball ammo all the time and have no doubt it will go off. In .45 acp ball is good enough for me.

I have seen a lot of old revolvers with multiple bullets lodged in the barrel, this may be a result of squib loads. But, when checked most have had excessive barrel to cylinder gap, allowing the pressure to bleed off way too fast, the bullet literally runs out of "gas". Squib loads are just not that common.

BTW for me max B/C gap should be no more than .006, I have seen up to .012

As far as the legal issues mentioned, in the event you are ever involved in a shooting, or anything else legal. The best advice I have ever recieved is , "keep your mouth shut", get a lawyer.

Anything you say can be used against you. Anything you say to "explain" your actions will be taken as hearsay unless it can be used against you, in which case it will be used as fact.

Most of the folks in jail, PUT THEMSELVES THERE.