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Truest modern 1911 to the original design?

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by PlayboyPenguin, Nov 6, 2009.

  1. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin Pacific Northwest Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

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    Most of us know the original 1911 prototype did not have a grip safety. That throws a bit of a wrinkle into the mix when trying to determine the "truest" copy as far as modern pistols go.

    If we are going to ask what is the truest modern made version of the 1911-A1 it is easier. I would say my Colt 1911-A1 is the closest (except that mine is stainless), but if we are going to say truest to the 1911 design I would have to say it just might be my Detonics pistols. If you set aside the funky sight placement and look at the gun from a functional standpoint you might agree with me...or you might not. :D

    What do you guys think.

    CM1-1.jpg

    CM1-3.jpg
     
  2. jordanvraptor

    jordanvraptor Oregon City, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Remember the Jerry Ahern books anyone? :)

    Didn't Cylinder and Slide make a version of an original Colt hammerless prototype?
     
  3. Joe Link

    Joe Link Portland, OR Well-Known Member Staff Member Lifetime Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    No comment to your question but whoa, what's it like shooting that with the decreased sight radius?
     
  4. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin Pacific Northwest Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

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    It is actually a pretty accurate pistol. I would not want to try and shoot a bad guy in the eye from 20 yards as he held a knife to a loved ones throat, but it does the job. :)
     
  5. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    Colts series 70 was the last time they made close to original 1911s.

    jj
     
  6. BSG 75

    BSG 75 Oregon Well-Known Member

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  7. wichaka

    wichaka Wa State Well-Known Member

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    Actually the original design had a grip safety, but no thumb safety. The thumb safety was added after the Military insisted on it.

    The pre-cursor models to the 1911 started around 1909. Some were hammerless, but all had a grip safety.

    The thumb safety was added around mid 1910.
     
  8. wichaka

    wichaka Wa State Well-Known Member

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    The Series 70 is not a "Firing System"

    It denotes a Colt Gov model with certain features, most noted that being the collett barrel bushing.
     
  9. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    With the advent of mim parts it's hard to say if anything made after 1989 would be close even if the parts look the same.

    jj
     
  10. Oro

    Oro Western WA Active Member

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    Yep, it looked like this. This was the prototype design circa 1910:

    1910.gif

    This always gives the "designed from the start to be carried cocked and locked" crowd a bit of a fit.

    I am a fan of the "original" design and think it works well without modification. That said, I think the Colt WWI is as close as it gets. Before that model came out, I agree with Just Jim, the Series '70 was pretty close save the bushing and trigger/MSH arrangement. I use a FMAP M1927 in original shape as a "1911 substitute" sometimes, despite the short trigger and arched MSH. I also have a Series '70 with a long trigger and flat MSH for the same purpose (though I miss the long/wide spur hammer - love that on the M1927). I haven't bought a WWI yet as I would baby it and not carry it if I got it. Thus I am waiting until someone sells theirs used with some wear on it so I can just start carrying it and not be careful with it. ;)

    Colt uses very few MIM parts, and only one you can actually see (the mag release) - they use fewer than any major 1911 producer. I don't see MIM as a big deal.
     
  11. wichaka

    wichaka Wa State Well-Known Member

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    MIM if made right, is no big deal. The problem when putting out bids to vendors...low bid wins, which means the public gets the short end of the stick sometimes.

    Colt also uses MIM sears, but they are made right and can be used for good trigger jobs.
     
  12. rudedog04

    rudedog04 oregon-roseburg Member

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    this is my carry gun its ser is in the 47,000 range thanks to being a fatboy i can carry this cross draw just fine . i have had alot of people tell me how much this was worth i wonder what its worth now at least this way i wont sell it or trade it pb060002.jpg
     
  13. huntpotter

    huntpotter SW WA Negotiator Bronze Supporter

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    Detonics made really good 1911s. I wish they were still in Seattle.
    Rudedog, I wish you would clean the paint off, and put a nice blue job on your baby.
     
  14. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin Pacific Northwest Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

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    It shouldn't...the gun did not have the safeties in the original prototype stages (no matter the designation) but JMB clear spelled out in his own papers that when he was made to add the safeties his primary goal was to add them in a way as to make the gun safe to handle while in a ready to fire condition. I read a "biography" of him once that used his own notes and it was pretty clear that carrying cocked and locked was his intent when created the final product. In fact he was quite angered that the military ignored his instructions that this was the way the gun was meant to be carried.
     
  15. Oro

    Oro Western WA Active Member

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    Well, it looks like an entirely correct 1911 with original parts. I would say with a high-quality re-blue and correct reproduction grips, it would be worth about $850 if the original barrel is there and in good shape. Looks like the original magazine is gone?

    As she lays, I'd say $500 or maybe a little more as a shooter. The "value" of these lies in being in original condition. I saw one similar to this yesterday at a gun show, original condition but newer barrel and refinished, it has been to a few shows unsold at $750, which is pretty consistent with other prices I see elsewhere.

    That's interesting, PP. How does that reconcile with the addition of the TS? Was that his opinion once it was added, and do you know what his intents were before that change (e.g. - with the 1910)?

    Speaking of the 1910, I saw a link to this today:

    http://www.rockislandauction.com/view_item.aspx?aid=48&iid=250617

    :wow:
     
  16. Ding

    Ding Lighter Side of Oz Active Member

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    nice picture taking PP..I like my Combat Commander and series 70 and the government model..I love em all anyway.
     
  17. BSG 75

    BSG 75 Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Better tell Colt to correct their web page then. :winkkiss:

    2lav6yt.jpg
     
  18. wichaka

    wichaka Wa State Well-Known Member

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    Yep, they need to change that. Colt is pretty idiotic to have the public believe that term was used in 1911.

    The problem is most of the public is geared for that term, so they cater to it. tsk tsk
     
  19. Oro

    Oro Western WA Active Member

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    Yep, it's so frustrating that the marketing people even at Colt have no clue.

    You should also see the gun they market as a "Series '70" reproduction. It's about as close to a true Series '70 as a Brazilian-made Springfield. There is barely a part on it that is true to the original gun. I've posted in detail about this travesty on other gun forums, and I've already had three cups of strong coffee this morning. So I won't say any more about that for the sake of my blood pressure. I believe that if you google the word "abortion," a Colt Series 70 reproduction could be the poster child.

    I love Colts, and even my new/recently made one, but they have idiots working for them just like everybody. It reminds me of the old adage about the auto industry - in the '70s and '80s the buzz was that there were "car guys" and then there were "sales guys." The "sales guys" always ended up running things. Funny thing was that in the '80s and '90s, only Ford did the silly thing of putting "car guys" in top management against Wall Street's thinking.

    And then Chrysler and GM went bankrupt. Maybe Kimber, Colt, and Springfield will figure out the lesson and get back to fundamentals, but I doubt it. Colt is doing far better than the other two, but still far from perfect.