Trouble with Berdan primers

[fstdraw]

So, I've been loading a few 7.62x39's for my AK. I've been loading at .5 gr. increments and testing loads with AA1680. I've loaded hundreds of Boxer primed 762's with no problems. However with these Berdan primes I've had several "delay" fire. Not several seconds of course, but a couple of hundredths. Thoughts? As you know, pulling the trigger and not getting an immediate bang is a bummer.

Thank you.

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[DizzyJ]

Can you take a picture of the backside of an unfired berdan primer?

 

[P7M13]

You're trying to load berdan pocket casings with boxer primers? That takes talent!

 

[DizzyJ]

You're trying to load berdan pocket casings with boxer primers? That takes talent!

Maybe I read it backward. Thought he was using berdan primers?

 

[P7M13]

I don't know how you'd get a berdan primer to fire in a boxer cup - it needs an anvil, which is built into all the berdan cases I've deprimed. The anvil on a boxer is that little disk sitting on top of the ignition primer compound inside the primer cup.
Granted, I write the above with having deprimed only a few berdan cases.

 

[DizzyJ]

I don't know how you'd get a berdan primer to fire in a boxer cup - it needs an anvil, which is built into all the berdan cases I've deprimed. The anvil on a boxer is that little disk sitting on top of the ignition primer compound inside the primer cup.
Granted, I write the above with having deprimed only a few berdan cases.

I'm not intimately familiar with the berdan primers, just what the inside of the case looks like with the two holes for the flash to come through.

Thought he was using berdan primers in boxer brass the way I read his comment, thus my question as to what the bottom of a berdan primer looks like. Thought it might shed some light on why it might not be lighting off immediately and consistently.

After googling several sites in order to find one that shows what they look like, I understand where you're coming from.

 

[po18guy]

Berdans are metric, and not the .175" and .210" of Boxer primers. If Berdans are being loaded into Berdan cases, then perhaps seating depth is an issue.

Decapping is a hassle.You either lever them out from the base with a special Berdan de-primer, or you hydraulically force them out from within by another special setup.

 

[fstdraw]

Hey guys, thank you for the ideas and suggestions. However, I am loading the proper Berdan primer into the proper brass and or steel Berdan cases. My firm belief is that only a moron would try to load boxer primers into a Berdan case. No, the problem is just not having sure ignition of the Berdan primer in a Berdan casing. Thanks.

 

[fstdraw]

By the way, I'm loading the primers at a depth of 5 to 8 thousandths below flush in the primer pocket.

 

[Mikej]

By the way, I'm loading the primers at a depth of 5 to 8 thousandths below flush in the primer pocket.

Hence the request for a picture of a fired case from the primer end.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

perhaps the anvil in some of your casings is worn out? have they seen multiple reloadings?

 

[deadeye]

First question: How did you deprime them and if cleaned, how?

second: are the primers new or old and were they purchased from a retailer or private owner?

Third: Same as second but about powder?

Fourth: If cleaned brass were the primer pockets and flash holes cleaned and checked?

Powder should be a go to one for the round according to their site.

 

[fstdraw]

I will get a pic soon today.

All once fired. Both steel and brass cases had the problem. Steel cases were hydraulically removed primers, so no damage could have happened there. Brass cases we're decapped using a hammer and awl.

 

[po18guy]

By the way, I'm loading the primers at a depth of 5 to 8 thousandths below flush in the primer pocket.

Contact the manufacturer if you can and get their spec for seating depth. Seating to shallow or too deeply both carry to the potential to cause the problem you are experiencing.

In the absence of contact information, load some test rounds seated more deeply if possible, and some slightly more shallow. As long as the flash holes are clear, the hangfires suggest that the primer pellet is not being compressed to the point of ignition in a consistent manner. Then again, it could be a less-than-reliable lot or brand.

 

[fstdraw]

That's a good point about the primer pellet not making good contact with the anvil of the case. I did measure a few military rounds to get my seating depth. That may not be an accurate measurement because of a once fired case. I guess the anvil cold be flattened by the first firing.

 

[fstdraw]

I can adjust the seating depth to anything I need. I set up an RCBS hand primer tool with an adjustable depth stop. Could be deeper is better in this case.

 

[osprey]

It maybe such that the anvil in the case is compromised after one firing and berdan cases are designed for one and done.

 

[po18guy]

The steel cases should suffer far less from this phenomenon. Do you have a magnifying loupe and some calipers? The height of the anvil will determine the best seating depth, and that will vary among cases. Ultimately, you may settle on a brass case depth and a steel case depth. Or, you may not. Thus, some testing is in order.

EDIT: osprey raises a salient point. The Berdan case is a consumable, like brake pads. As long as that anvil is high enough, like brake lining, it remains seviceable. However, once the typicaly heavy military firing pin repeatedly hammers on it, damage will occur and the case will become un-serviceable. Again, steel cases will almost certainly have a longer life.

 

[fstdraw]

I will take measurements tonight. One thing seem evident to me, Boxer reloads a bit better. Fortunately I've got lots of both Boxer and Berdan primed cases so I'm covered and can afford to experiment a bit.

 

[po18guy]

I will take measurements tonight. One thing seem evident to me, Boxer reloads a bit better. Fortunately I've got lots of both Boxer and Berdan primed cases so I'm covered and can afford to experiment a bit.

Boxer anvils are expendable and replaceable. Berdan anvils are expendable and not replaceable. Thus, handloading is a normally pleasing adventure which has occasional disappointments.