Trip to the gold store today

[Bacchus]

Very good question, I don't know the answer. If the coins were bought with a credit card there will probably at least be a record of the transaction to the extent that this person paid this amount to this store.

I would think paying cash at a local store would be less documented than a credit card and less documented than buying online where you have to give an address, but it sounds like your friend probably doesn't know how and where the coins were bought.

You can call or go to a coin store and just ask them if they have to send a form to the government. From what I can tell, coin people seem to tilt towards wanting less government in their lives, so I think they will give you a straight answer. You can call several dealers and see if their lies match!

You can also sign up to post messages on a coin forum and post your question. Back when I was more interested in coins than I am now, Collector's Universe seemed to be the biggest forum online, judging from the number of topics and replies.

 

[TTSX]

Question, sorry if has been covered. When a person buys or sells gold or silver from a store is there a form sent to the government about the transaction? My friend has inherited a large amount of coins , but is now not sure how to eventually turn it into cash to distribute to her family . ,, tax liabilities…

I believe any transaction at a bank of $10k or greater must be reported. I would assume the same would go for a large transaction at a pawn broker/coin seller. Personally, I would have your friend distribute the bullion and have the new owners make a decision for themselves what to do with it. Government and the tax man can't track physical transfer of anything.

 

[Cavedweller]

Question, sorry if has been covered. When a person buys or sells gold or silver from a store is there a form sent to the government about the transaction? My friend has inherited a large amount of coins , but is now not sure how to eventually turn it into cash to distribute to her family . ,, tax liabilities…

A few years ago there was a proposal that precious metals transactions be reported to the IRS on a 1099, however AFAIK this was defeated, so I do not believe individual transactions get reported to the feds or the state revenuers. However, like any other business, coin and bullion dealers must keep records of their sales and purchases for their own tax reporting. Furthermore, my experience selling at local shops has been that they will ask for ID in case the merch turns out to be stolen and the local police investigate. I believe that in Salem this is a local ordinance. Plus, you will not walk out of a reputable shop with cash in hand - they will most likely write a check. So, even tho these transactions may not be reported, there are various ways a seller could be traced in the unlikely event there were some sort of investigation.

So, I concur with the above recommendation that your friend distribute the coins themselves rather than converting to cash. You did not say how old or in what state of health you friend was, but it would probably be a good idea to begin making small gifts to the intended recipients at regular intervals (birthdays, Xmas?) if she does not need the money herself. At the very least, maybe divide the stash into lots with the intended recipients' names so they don't have to figure it out later.

My 2 cents.

 

[Alexx1401]

Question, sorry if has been covered. When a person buys or sells gold or silver from a store is there a form sent to the government about the transaction? My friend has inherited a large amount of coins , but is now not sure how to eventually turn it into cash to distribute to her family . ,, tax liabilities…

Roughly how much is a "large amount?" Second was there a will? If there was then the move should have been documented and there will be some tax liability. If its what it sounds like, that they just got the stuff and no one knows? Again how much are we talking here? The IRS is going to want a cut and if its ever found out that the person just did not tell them they can get real nasty about that depending on how much money we are talking about here. If we are talking a couple K? I would just give the coins to the people they want them to go to and let them deal with it. If we are talking MUCH more than that? Then may be wise to seek a lawyer who works with this kind of thing. Also did the one who owned the coins owe money to State for anything? Again if we are talking a couple K, probably who cares. If we are talking a LOT more, again may be worth checking with a Lawyer. They don't want some "official" to come nosing around a year or more from now and find out. Gov gets REAL nasty if they find out you beat them out of what they think of as their cut.

 

[Soli]

*** This Is Not Legal Advice ***

The estate inventory list will go to the county, so the gubmint will know about all assets in the estate. Unless the executor actively lies there's no way to stop there being a record of the coins being known.

That said, an estate is a special thing. It's its own entity, consisting of the property of a tax payer who isn't alive. No one living owns it, so nothing that happens in it becomes anyone else's tax liability. The Executor manages it, but doesn't own it. ("Personal Representative," PR, is the term in Oregon for executor.)

The PR has a duty to protect the estate assets for distribution. In that they usually liquidate at least some assets (for fair market value! Important!), and use that money in the distribution. The money they get in the liquidation is put in an Estate Bank Account.

Money in/out of the Estate Account is not income for the PR. Selling something, putting the money in the Estate Account, then later distributing that money to the heirs are not taxable events in themselves. I don't think the "something" being gold/silver matters. Whoever buys the coins will make the payment to the Estate Account, not to the PR.

Once the money is distributed to the heirs it's up to them to handle any taxes. In Oregon inherited money is not considered income, so isn't taxed.

That said, your friend needs to consult with a lawyer if they're uncertain. I'm not a lawyer. Simply had the sad Personal Representative experience recently.

 

[parallax]

Roughly how much is a "large amount?" Second was there a will? If there was then the move should have been documented and there will be some tax liability. If its what it sounds like, that they just got the stuff and no one knows? Again how much are we talking here? The IRS is going to want a cut and if its ever found out that the person just did not tell them they can get real nasty about that depending on how much money we are talking about here. If we are talking a couple K? I would just give the coins to the people they want them to go to and let them deal with it. If we are talking MUCH more than that? Then may be wise to seek a lawyer who works with this kind of thing. Also did the one who owned the coins owe money to State for anything? Again if we are talking a couple K, probably who cares. If we are talking a LOT more, again may be worth checking with a Lawyer. They don't want some "official" to come nosing around a year or more from now and find out. Gov gets REAL nasty if they find out you beat them out of what they think of as their cut.

the situation, is an older guy who has collected coins for over 80+ years,some with receipts, but most without.,,He doesn't have much time left, so he has instructed his daughter to take possession of his coin collection, to share with 2 daughters and 1 grand daughter,, as far as i can tell its could be worth $ 70,000- $ 200,000 depending on the grade of some of the rarer coins. the daughters dont want to deal with selling the coins themselves,, I've had the daughter put some of the extra rare coins into her safe deposit box for safe keeping. until we can figure out the tax situation, where to get them graded and put them on the market, or let a coin and jewelery store make her an offer on all of it.. thnxs.. for responses..

 

[Alexx1401]

the situation, is an older guy who has collected coins for over 80+ years,some with receipts, but most without.,,He doesn't have much time left, so he has instructed his daughter to take possession of his coin collection, to share with 2 daughters and 1 grand daughter,, as far as i can tell its could be worth $ 70,000- $ 200,000 depending on the grade of some of the rarer coins. the daughters dont want to deal with selling the coins themselves,, I've had the daughter put some of the extra rare coins into her safe deposit box for safe keeping. until we can figure out the tax situation, where to get them graded and put them on the market, or let a coin and jewelery store make her an offer on all of it.. thnxs.. for responses..

The daughter NEED'S to seek a Lawyer who deals with this kind of law then. That is the kind of money that if the people who live on our tax money find out about even years down the road? They will come looking for blood. As tempting as it is to just not say anything it is a HUGE risk. It SUCKS that the leeches want their piece of this now BUT, if she does not give it now and they find out later? She will wish she had just paid them.
If she chooses to just take the cash? She needs to remember she is, in the eye's of the leeches, committing a crime. The one kind of crime they NEVER turn their back on. So she would need to be VERY damned careful who she tells and how she takes the cash from the coins.

 

[Cavedweller]

the situation, is an older guy who has collected coins for over 80+ years,some with receipts, but most without.,,He doesn't have much time left, so he has instructed his daughter to take possession of his coin collection, to share with 2 daughters and 1 grand daughter,, as far as i can tell its could be worth $ 70,000- $ 200,000 depending on the grade of some of the rarer coins. the daughters dont want to deal with selling the coins themselves,, I've had the daughter put some of the extra rare coins into her safe deposit box for safe keeping. until we can figure out the tax situation, where to get them graded and put them on the market, or let a coin and jewelery store make her an offer on all of it.. thnxs.. for responses..

Not to worry. Unless the total value of the estate is over $12.92 million there is no federal estate tax (Thank you Donald Trump). Oregon has a $1 million estate tax exclusion, so again, unless the total value of the estate exceeds this, no tax will be due.

Sounds like we are talking about numismatic coins rather than bullion, so expert advice is a good idea.

Guide to Estate Tax: Definition, What to Know - NerdWallet

The federal estate tax is a tax that's levied on your assets after you die. Most estates don't require filing an estate tax return unless the assets are over $12.92 million in 2023 or $13.61 million in 2024.

www.nerdwallet.com

Also, there is an annual $17,000 gift tax exclusion which can be given to each heir tax free. So if the estate exceeds the amounts above, it would be a good idea to gift the maximum amount allowed to each heir before the old gentleman passes.

Increased Gift and Estate Tax Exemption Amounts for 2023

The gift tax annual exclusion and the gift and estate tax exemption increased significantly for 2023.

www.foley.com

A CPA would be a good advisor in this situation.

 

[Alexx1401]

Not to worry. Unless the total value of the estate is over $12.92 million there is no federal estate tax (Thank you Donald Trump). Oregon has a $1 million estate tax exclusion, so again, unless the total value of the estate exceeds this, no tax will be due.

Sounds like we are talking about numismatic coins rather than bullion, so expert advice is a good idea.

Guide to Estate Tax: Definition, What to Know - NerdWallet

The federal estate tax is a tax that's levied on your assets after you die. Most estates don't require filing an estate tax return unless the assets are over $12.92 million in 2023 or $13.61 million in 2024.

www.nerdwallet.com

Also, there is an annual $17,000 exclusion which can be given to each heir tax free. So if the estate exceeds the amounts above, it would be a good idea to gift the maximum amount allowed to each heir before the old gentleman passes.

Increased Gift and Estate Tax Exemption Amounts for 2023

The gift tax annual exclusion and the gift and estate tax exemption increased significantly for 2023.

www.foley.com

A CPA would be a good advisor in this situation.

Great info. Wife has been wondering what will happen with our taxes this time around since she got a chunk of change from her parents passing. Sounds like it will be nothing. REALLY shocked Joe has not changed this.

 

[Richo877]

I'm not in a strong financialposition to buy metals right now, but seeing the prices drop this week has me itching to buy back in. I'm not an avid metals investor, and I don't offer advise, but I expect the price dip to be brief (maybe even dip a little lower). The charts are looking like they're poised for a very healthy rebound, potentially 25%-30% return in 6-9mo. I always pick the perfect time for my sh*t to hit the fan. Again, not investment advise, but if I was in a more comfortable position I'd be on the buying end of the market right now instead of depleting my resources. I could be wrong and the whole market could tank, but history shows metals have always retained value. The metal values relative to the US dollar and cpi will balance back out, and when they do, metals will be significantly stronger. I have to stop watching when I don't have the resources to do anything about it. Hope you guys catch a healthy return.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

View: https://youtu.be/FiJZUVXSYX4?feature=shared

 

[TTSX]

Chicken little

 

[Certaindeaf]

It's always best to emergency panic.

 

[wired]

Buy high sell low.

 

[CamoDeafie]

View: https://youtu.be/FiJZUVXSYX4?feature=shared

That hairdo contributes to more panic and the ozone hole from the hairspray!

 

[gmerkt]

Responding to older question.

Question, sorry if has been covered. When a person buys or sells gold or silver from a store is there a form sent to the government about the transaction? My friend has inherited a large amount of coins , but is now not sure how to eventually turn it into cash to distribute to her family . ,, tax liabilities…

The only time a coin or bullion dealer reports a purchase is if the transaction involves more than $10K in cash. See comments on form 8300, below.

In an inheritance situation, the coins are valued on a stepped-up basis. That is, the value assigned is that which pertains at the time of inheritance. In which case, likely little or no income tax will be due by the heirs. I think there is a six month rule for stepped-up basis, so even if the coins gain value after death of the owner, the value at time of death is "good" for six months for heirs.

For persons who don't wait until their death for the coins to become someone else's property, there are quantity thresholds that trigger tax reporting and potential capital gains taxes. But the federal laws governing these thresholds haven't been updated for decades.

Tax Reporting Requirements | Sell Your Gold

This information describes the reporting obligations that bullion dealers have for customers selling bullion

www.sellyourgold.com

There are some specific items / quantities mentioned, but as far as individuals are concerned, fairly high. For example, 1,000 ounces of silver bullion is reportable. 900 oz. isn't. $1,000 face value pre-64 US silver coins are reportable.

Then there is the Form 8300 thing, that's another story. If you are cashing out, receiving $10K or more triggers reporting to the IRS. The solution to that is to sell to one of the larger, reputable firms who typically issue checks for purchases.

Keep all your receipts, they may come in handy for "during life" transactions. Gold coins that I'm aware of do not have a serial number. So they might've been bought last week or 30 years ago. Receipts from more recent purchases might be helpful if a person was to get into a capital gains tax situation.

 

[gmerkt]

Updating my original post of Oct. 12, 2021. Which was a while ago.

After a longish plateau in the $1,800 range +/1, gold has advanced to near $2,400 in the past year or so.

A major driver of this increase is purchasing by central banks of the world. China has been a big buyer, both for their central bank and by citizens. This is part of the "de-Dollarization" move. Retail buyers flocking to Costco to get their bar doesn't add much to the price increase. It's a reaction, not an action. It's small potatoes.

There may be some faddism on the part of current retail buyers. BUT: Lots of people have their eye on the mounting national debt, plus the effects of inflation over the past few years. Which is evidence of deterioration of the US Dollar. High USD vs. currencies of the world at the moment is a relative thing, and doesn't help us much in day-to-day life.

I've been a buyer for years, but not at current levels. And not so long as I can get 5% on cash deposits. I could be a dip buyer, if the dip is significant enough.