Quantcast
  1. Sign up now and join over 35,000 northwest gun owners. It's quick, easy, and 100% free!

travelling by Greyhound with guns.......

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by tionico, Dec 1, 2009.

  1. tionico

    tionico Thurston County Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,219
    Likes Received:
    128
    Looked into a short run between two cities in another state where I'll be visiting soon, and was astounded to find, in their "about baggage" section, strict prohibitions against ammunition and/or firearms of any type in checked baggage.

    OK, I've not much problem with such a rule for passengers inside the busses. But in checked baggage? Now, this is a problem, as the state (Ohio) has resiprocity with Washington, so my CPL from here allows me to legally carry concealed in Ohio. I am also well versed in the "rules" for transporting firearms in checked baggage on the airlines. BUT--- if I can't take it on the Dog, I'm faced with several unacceptable options:

    1) leave it home (no thanks, I'll be in Cincinnati and Cleveland areas....)

    2) stay home (duhhh....)

    3) put it in the suitcase, shut up, and ride the dog

    4) find some alternate way of getting between Cinci and Cleveland (difficult, and a LOT more money than the Dawg)


    Anyone have firsthand knowledge of how Greyhound handle checked luggage? Do they open, inspect, scan, search, checked bags? Anyone have any idea what they might DO if they found an unloaded pistol in checked bags? Seize it, arrest me, throw me under the bus (or off it), charge me with some felonious crime such as reckless endangerment, civic uprising, etc?

    Seems strange that all airlines accept properly handled firearms in checked luggage, according to their rules (not onerous, considering....)

    and now even Amtrak is, or shortly will be, accepting the same.

    So, the Grey Dog is the only common carrier for passengers not allowing this. There might be remedies, but they won't help in the short time frame I've got.. interfering with interstate commerce, restricting my right to keep and bear, whatever....


    any input, particularly including specifics, personal experience, etc. most appreciated.
     
  2. NK777

    NK777 West of Portland Member

    Messages:
    781
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't know but I doubt they search or Xray your bags so if that's true I would honestly have one anyways. Just keep it concealed always unless the SHTF. If you get caught you could be faced with charges so it is your call ultimately. I'm just sharing my layman opinion on the matter and it's not legal advice.
     
  3. motoman98

    motoman98 Gresham, OR Active Member

    Messages:
    676
    Likes Received:
    80
    Rode the 'dog' in AZ last year. You bring your bag to the side of the bus, and the driver puts it in, like in Phoenix(big town) or in Yuma, little town. No inspection of any kind.
     
  4. elsullo

    elsullo Portland Oregon New Member

    Messages:
    1,199
    Likes Received:
    51
    Call Greyhound and ask if you can SHIP (in a box in a locked hardcase) the gun to yourself at your destination depot. It would likely travel on the same buses that you do and arrive at about the same time. It would be considered freight and not accessible to you, and could be insured for loss, IF they would do it. Really, they have no reason to do it.

    I drove Greyhound for over six years until I finally quit in disgust. They DO have very serious security concerns, and not just terrorism. There have been many "nut-case" violent attacks on the buses that you have never heard of, so now all carry-on baggage is hand searched and all passengers are "wanded" with a metal detector, on a random basis (pretty frequent). Even small pocket knives are seized, unless you want to pay to have it shipped to yourself. This search is likely every time that you join or transfer to another route or schedule. You would not believe the amount of dangerous objects, tools, and weapons that have been confiscated!

    As for just hiding a gun in your checked baggage without telling them, that's pretty iffy. Checked bags are not screened or x-rayed, but they are often SNIFFED by the drug dogs---and the dogs do alert on the odor of gun oil and gunpowder! In that case your bag would be seized, searched, and the gun would be confiscated. I don't know if they would bother with criminal charges, but it would surely be a trial to get your luggage back. Another problem is if your baggage tags get lost or unreadable (it can happen) they have to open your baggage to seek an owner ID or address. Normally, every time that you join or change buses you must collect your baggage yourself and move it with you to the next connection. But sometimes they will specify that it's OK, they will take care of it for you. Listen to their instructions carefully---it's NOT like an airline where luggage is removed from your control.

    So, here is a funny story, and all true: Back before 09/11/01 and the new world of terrorism concerns and security proceedures, lots of drugs were shipped by Greyhound. Generally, the "mules" were illegal aliens and their lives were on the line to get a shipment hidden in their checked baggage through. Whenever the buses arrived at a major terminal all of the baggage was re-sorted and put back in the proper bins of the buses. The mules would watch their bags like terrified hawks at this stage, and became quite noticable to the baggage handlers, who were not stupid people. In one particular terminal there was a sharp baggage man who loved his ganjah, and while the mule watched one side of the bus, he would climb in the baggage bin on the other side of the bus with a flashlight and close the bin door behind him. He would proceed to search all of the likely bags while the passengers were on their meal break, and he would seize all of the drugs for himself, or to sell later! A few people knew of his trick, and management finally told him to stop. Nobody had much sympathy for the mules who got to their destination without their shipment in their baggage.

    Another true story: one time the FBI caught a huge shipment of meth on Greyhound, and let the young woman carrying it free. She said, "Aren't you going to arrest me?" They answered, "Why bother, you won't live out the week for losing your gang's shipment." That story is not so funny........................elsullo :paranoid:
     
  5. torpedoman

    torpedoman land of corrupt politicians Member

    Messages:
    765
    Likes Received:
    19
    Put it in your bag and shut up.
     
  6. MarkAd

    MarkAd Port Orchard Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,422
    Likes Received:
    617
  7. tionico

    tionico Thurston County Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,219
    Likes Received:
    128
    Mark, I've already got those refernces and studied them. Ohio has reciprocity with Washington, so I know my CPL from here enables me to carry concealed there. I'll be in Kentucky for part of the time before getting on the dog. and that state recognises everyone else's state issued permit. (what a great idea, eh? If I've passed all the checks and hoo hah here in one state, do ya really think I'd get a hold in another? Or be less qualified there than I am here?

    MY issue is that I will not attempt to carry concealed on the bus.. especially after readung El Sullo's comments. No, I merely want MY gun to end up in the same town I do and at the same time.

    Their prohibition is nuts, too.. a cold, inert hunk of steel sitting in a suitcase can harm no one. And ammunition can only harm if there is a serious fire to set off the rounds..... at which point bystanders would be well clear anyway. Bunch of stupid stuff.


    It seems that if the airlines and Amtrak can allow unloaded arms in locked hard containers in checked baggage, who to Greyhound think THEY are to forbid them?

    I'll most likely package them carefully, disguise them well in the huge suitcase, throw it in the belly and shut up.


    Never did like the bus anyway, but no other options....... too far for my friend to drive the round trip, Amtrak goes from Cinci to Cleveland via Chicago.. two day thousand mile trip...... renting a car is rather expensive....... grrrrrr.......
     
  8. NK777

    NK777 West of Portland Member

    Messages:
    781
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hope you have a safe trip and a nut job doesn't decide to shoot up the bus while your on it. You'll have a **** of a time getting at it if you need it in a hurry.
     
  9. JAFO

    JAFO OR, USA Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    556
    Likes Received:
    148
    It would probably cost $150 to fly one-way and it will only be a little over an hour flying time.
     
  10. AGCR

    AGCR SE Portland Active Member

    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    51
    Last time I took Greyhound from Portland to Seattle there was a pat down search to get into the waiting area. I declared my pocket knife and was told I had to check it, so I went back, got a check ticket and was let through WITH my knife in the bag, though nobody bothered to verify I didn't just re-pocket it later or even check the bag under the bus at all.
     
  11. tionico

    tionico Thurston County Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,219
    Likes Received:
    128
    Looks like I should be alright. Rental car for that rip will be close to $200. I checked a dozen different ways. $20/day if I rent and return it same airport. $200 to leave it in Akron. Ouch. Air is almost as bac... NO one flies between Cinci and Akron, they all fly from Cinci to their hub, then hub to Akron. Near $200, 3 or 4 hours.

    Unless I can hook a ride with one of the conference attendees, its saddle up the dog time.

    I'll have things broken down and packed so as to be VERY difficult to notice... they'd have to have some reason to think I've got arms in that bag to find them... and the only way they'd find them then is a VERY thorough, almost a forensic, search. Not likely. I don't look suspicions....

    El Sullo, you indicate they COULD have me arrested and confiscate my guns. I doubt this.. I've read both Kentucky's and Ohio's gun laws very carefully, as well as Federal laws. ANYONE (except restricted persons.. felons, etc) can transport a gun in a vehicle, as long as it is unloaded and not accessible from the passenger compartment. In checked baggage would certainly be in that category. No laws against possession loaded in most places.... and my CPL is recognised in both states, so I COULD carry concealed nearly anywhere in the states, even in a vehicle (courthouses, schools, etc, of course, are restricted). Private property CAN be restricted per owner's decision, but must be posted, (likely is) and that restriction applies ONLY to loaded weapons on someone's person. Not the case. And then, worst case is to be asked to remove the weapon from the property, either by itself or me as well).

    I figure the worst can happen is they throw me, and my bags, off the bus and say "walk, sucker". I see NO legal basis for them to confiscate my broken down and unloaded weapons buried deep within checked baggage, and./or to arrest me. On what charge?

    The federal pamphlet recognises that "most bus companies" refuse to allow weapons in checked baggage. But, again, that is a decision of a private company, and carries no force of law. ALL they can do is to refuse the item, with or without the passenger transporting it. No basis for either arrest or confiscation. Hey, if Federal Law allows them to be transported in checked luggage on airlines, and now Amtrak, the legal precedent is well enshrined into law. It devolves to a matter of a policy decision by a private enterprise.

    SO-- I'll pack well, conceal well within the checked bag, throw it on the bus and shut up, sit down, and endure the ride.

    And once I return, will likely write a strong letter of protest to the management of Greyhound... why can't they conform to established law and allow them in checked luggage, as do airlines and rail carriers? It would be interesting to work toward some federal legislagion REQUIRING all federally registered common passenger carriers using interstate motorways to allow arms properly packed and stowed in checked baggage on their equipment. If the airlines..... how can a guy take the bus to go on a hunting trip? How can one travel unimpeded interstate if one can't take with him otherwise lawfully possessed arms?

    stupid, paranoiac, inane, obnoxious..... contra the Constitution..... grrrr.....
     
  12. JAFO

    JAFO OR, USA Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    556
    Likes Received:
    148
    A flight to Cleveland is cheaper than Akron, according to a quick search. I didn't check Pittsburgh. Did you check any one way rentals with Budget or National and to different locations or only Akron?

    Where exactly are you going? Your itinerary seems fairly similar to what mine might look like. I have a friend that lives in Cinci and my family is on the OH/PA border near Sharon, PA. I have a couple cousins in Akron.
     
  13. fred c. dobbs

    fred c. dobbs salem Active Member

    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    40
    who rides the greydog , if you are that broke, maybe you need to adjust your priorities.
     
  14. tionico

    tionico Thurston County Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,219
    Likes Received:
    128
    JAFO, true enough.. but my final destination is about forty miles from Akron, to the south and west. Cleveland is about 90 miles away from my friend, the bus depot nearest him is 25.

    I checked one way rentals with everyone, and to different locations. Akron is the nearest airport, there may be means of dropping off the car in some town, but everything I tried resulted in a similar outrageous charge, except bringing it back to the same place I picked it up. Funny, sometimes they WANT people to take cars from one lot that has too may to another that has too few. Not this time, that I can find out about.

    Flying into Cleveland is a bit of a hassle, has my friend on the road for close to four hours. Funny, that no one flies into/out of Akron direct from Cincinnati. Maybe they figure if you're that close, drive or flog the dog.

    I just bought my ticket... on the dog. I'd cancel it in a heartbeat (no money back.... part of the cheap fare) if I had a ride with a real person.




    thanks for the input. I'll not input here until after I return... with either an "i made it no trouble" or "they threw me in the pokey and stole my arms" or maybe, MAYBE, I managed to cadge a ride in a real person's car.

    thanks for the encouragement, inside niggly details, etc. Its been a long time since I've ridden the Hound, long before the terrorist act and TSA stupidity began. So, I had no idea the current state of technology/endemic panic factor. I think I''ll be OK....... I HOPE I'll be OK...............
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2009
  15. tionico

    tionico Thurston County Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,219
    Likes Received:
    128
    not so much a matter of being broke, its a matter of no other reasonable options. And I don't consider a forty dollar four hour trip, on the one hand, and a two hundred dollar six hour trip, to be even on the same level as regards value scale. And the two hundred dollar six hour trip has my friend driving more than twice the distance to collect me.

    I'd rather spend the "change" on ammunition anyway. Seems a far better investment. and yes, I AM on a somewhat limited budget. ANyone wanting to contribute toward a car rental, I'll not refuse.
     
  16. fred c. dobbs

    fred c. dobbs salem Active Member

    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    40
    when you pack the peice , field strip it, it is not a gun at that point, it is "machined parts" put the slide and barrel on one side of the bag, the chamber and trigger assembly on the other, do not have any loaded mags, put your ammo in the diddy bag, wrapped in plastic, spill a litttle douche water or cologne in the bag, deter the dogs if any, if caught act like ******, without a teleprompter,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, confused, lost, misinformed, *********, take your pick.

    travel safe.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 6, 2009
  17. elsullo

    elsullo Portland Oregon New Member

    Messages:
    1,199
    Likes Received:
    51
    I did not say you would be arrested, only that you might have a lot of trouble getting your gun back, and then you would not be allowed to ride. Now, I don't LIKE Greyhound Corp., but I have to respect some of their policies. Basically, they cannot guard checked baggage at all times. For various reasons, the baggage bins are unlocked and unattended for substantial periods of time, and any wiseguy could dig out something from his baggage while the bus driver is occupied elsewhere. The best that Greyhound can do is to expressly prohibit weapons in checked bags, and that is posted at the ticket counters and on the back of every ticket. Like I said, it's NOT like an airline.

    Funny true story: on the day I quit Greyhound, when leaving the job I went up to the security guys and borrowed their metal-detecting wand to frisk myself for the first time for their benefit. I gave them seven serious beeps..................elsullo :D
     
  18. tionico

    tionico Thurston County Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,219
    Likes Received:
    128
    The results of the experiment:

    I stripped the slide/barrel assemblies off the pistols, wrapped them in cotton rags (bed sheets, brought along for cleaning patches), and stuffed them into a stainless thermos bottle with wide mouth. There was room to also stuff a couple mags, unloaded, in there too. Innnocent enough looking container. Put the bodies (grip/action) assemblies back into their cases and into the locked hard case, no ammo in there. Ammo in another locked metal container, in original cartons )per airline specs---- couldn't think of anything else to do to that....). Put several bags of green coffee beans on top of the gun wraps in their locked case. Boarded the bus on schedule. No one gave me a second look. No dogs.

    now, as to baggage handling, passengers carry their checked bags out to the side of the bus, where they are required to hand them to an attendant. That attendant places them in the belly lockers. Passengers are now kept far away from all those lockers at all times. I had to wait, at the transfer station midpoint, for the attendant to unload ALL the checked baggage to the marked area next the bus, then the two attendants there assured it was MY bag. I then had to pick it up and carry it to the next coach, again placing it on the tarmac in the designated area at the front of the bus. No passengers allowed near the bus itself with the lockers open. At destination, same story, I could not get near the open locker to claim my bag, had to wait for the driver or attendant to remove it from the bus and bring it forward to the marked area. THEN I could take possession of it.

    SO-- with the new "security measures", there seems to be no way I could get near the bag to extract anything anyway.. well guarded, no one near the open luggage lockers.

    If I had mischief up my sleeve, it would, however, be simple enough for me to simpy walk up the driveway into the bus loading area and start whatevering...... or, have one concealed on my person, and when getting near the coach, open it up and see what damage I could do.

    I am pleased to report there were NO issues, I arrived at my intended destination in good time, somewhat cramped from having to ride in that tin can for four hours... about the same as if I had been on an airplane. No one even gave me a funny look, no one asked about arms, the ONLY red-slashed circle with a pistol inside it I saw was on the door into the drivers' room in the very back of the first terminal. And, since I was NOT going in there, I never crossed any "lines". I did not read the fine print on the back of the ticket.

    I fully intend to write to the dorectors of Greyhound Lines Inc and vigourously protest their policy. I will not advise them I violated that policy, but that it caused me considerable stress in my travellings, is unconstitutional, and would have put no one at risk. I will detail my observations as to the strict separation of baggage and passengers, my inability to access my bags once on the bus, and formally request they either revise this policy or explain to me why they are unwilling to do so.


    On a more pleasant note, this afternoon my friend brought me to a local Amish owned gun supply store where I bought the last eight boxes of fifty rounds of Blazer Bronze 380 ammo, FMJ, for fourteen dollars the box.. they also had Remington (white box) 100 round cartons for $33/box. I am limited to 11 pounds ammo on my return flight, though, so I only bought the Blazer. They also had one remaining box of Speer Gold Dot .380 for $17, so I relieved them of that as well. I've been totally unable to purchase any of that in Oregon or Washington in the two months since I bought my LCP. I had found one box of FMC ball, but do not want to break in the new LCP with the coated, rather than full jacketed, rounds.

    They also had the Ruger LCP in the case for the amazing price of $276.... but, not having the funds, I did not even ask whether I could purchase that, being out of state. I rather suspect not.... though my friend here would have done so if I had asked. He knows I'll be a good boy. There is a lot to like of this area......... its even been warmer than back home in Olympia, too......