traveling by boat?

[Koda]

be prepared to disclose your CCW to the captain.

rummaging thru my attic recently I dug up an old book, probably my very first book on gun laws, Oregon Gun Laws & You by Chuck Canham and Samantha Kennedy. I did a quick skim and overall not bad for its time although flat wrong on CCW in schools even with a state issued license. But then I noted something that I never noted before, if your traveling by boat, any boat, anywhere in the US you must disclose to the boat owner or captain your firearms.

18 U.S. Code § 2277 - Explosives or dangerous weapons aboard vessels

I think the biggest impact this has is to anyone locally her is traveling by ferry in the Puget Sound. Ive always wanted to visit the San Juan Islands myself (bucket list). I find very little on the WDOT websites, nothing for the Seattle Bainbridge ferry but the Anacortes Orcas island ferry does mention "unlawful or illegally-possessed firearms", but that it no mention of disclosing....
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/ferries/pdf/2016Fall.pdf

Read More

 

[rick benjamin]

Have a WA CC?
Keep it concealed.
Nobody knows, nobody cares.
Unless they know...

 

[66PonyCar]

Please be careful, forum members have been reporting an unusual number of boating accidents where all their firearms have been lost overboard!!!!!!

 

[Medic!]

Here's $100 Captain.



If anybody asks. There was a tragic boating accident.

 

[66PonyCar]

On a more serious note here is the link which talks about firearms and other dangerous weapons. I'm no lawyer but I think the fact that they link both firearms and dangerous weapons would imply that firearms are dangerous weapons.

18 U.S. Code § 930 - Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

But it's difficult to discern what the WASDOT document really means about unlawful or illegally-possessed firearms. It would seem that Federal law would override state law and therefore the firearm would be unlawful or illegally-possessed as defined by Federal law unless you disclose it to the master of the vessel. So unless WASDOT specifically said they do not require disclosure of a legally concealed firearm then you are on thin ice if the Feds get involved.

So perhaps a call to WASDOT to inquire about their policy for legally concealed firearms and ideally a specific reference to one of their documents which addresses this situation.

 

[The Heretic]

be prepared to disclose your CCW to the captain.

rummaging thru my attic recently I dug up an old book, probably my very first book on gun laws, Oregon Gun Laws & You by Chuck Canham and Samantha Kennedy. I did a quick skim and overall not bad for its time although flat wrong on CCW in schools even with a state issued license. But then I noted something that I never noted before, if your traveling by boat, any boat, anywhere in the US you must disclose to the boat owner or captain your firearms.

18 U.S. Code § 2277 - Explosives or dangerous weapons aboard vessels

"board of any vessel documented under the laws of the United States, or any vessel purchased, requisitioned, chartered, or taken over by the United States pursuant to the provisions of Act June 6, 1941, ch. 174, 55 Stat. 242, as amended, without previously obtaining the permission of the owner or the master of such vessel; or

Whoever brings, carries, or possesses any such weapon or explosive on board of any vessel in the possession and under the control of the United States or which has been seized and forfeited by the United States or upon which a guard has been placed by the United States"

Speaking as someone who used to enforce federal laws regarding boats (petty officer in USCG):

There are two categories of vessels described here, and they do not cover all boats.

Documented boats are generally those vessels over a certain size and/or weight (26' and 5 ton, and all commercial vessels). A rowboat, dinghy, inflatable, etc., are almost never "documented". Larger fishing boats, some sailing boats over a certain size, yachts, generally ferries, it is safe to assume that they are "documented". To get the details google it, but you are fairly safe going out in most "small" boats.

I never heard of anyone telling a charter fishing boat captain that they were carrying, and many fishing boats carried firearms for various reasons related to the occupation. I served long before the "war on terrorism", but we were just getting into the stupid "war on drugs" (just say no). So maybe now things have changed, but I kind of doubt it.

The other category of vessels are those under the control of the US government (not necessarily those run by a state, city or municipality) - e.g., a military craft, NOAA boats, etc. - you would most certainly

I think the biggest impact this has is to anyone locally her is traveling by ferry in the Puget Sound. Ive always wanted to visit the San Juan Islands myself (bucket list). I find very little on the WDOT websites, nothing for the Seattle Bainbridge ferry but the Anacortes Orcas island ferry does mention "unlawful or illegally-possessed firearms", but that it no mention of disclosing....
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/ferries/pdf/2016Fall.pdf

The ferries are certainly documented - any vessel that carries people for hire is almost always documented, and the ferries are well above the size and weight where a vessel is documented regardless of what it carries. They are not operated by the US government though - they are operated by WA state.

I've been back and forth on them many times and never informed anybody about firearms I had, and never heard of anybody saying anything or asking about firearms. Fuel containers and other hazardous materials, yes, guns, no.

 

[Koda]

On a more serious note here is the link which talks about firearms and other dangerous weapons. I'm no lawyer but I think the fact that they link both firearms and dangerous weapons would imply that firearms are dangerous weapons.

18 U.S. Code § 930 - Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

But it's difficult to discern what the WASDOT document really means about unlawful or illegally-possessed firearms. It would seem that Federal law would override state law and therefore the firearm would be unlawful or illegally-possessed as defined by Federal law unless you disclose it to the master of the vessel. So unless WASDOT specifically said they do not require disclosure of a legally concealed firearm then you are on thin ice if the Feds get involved.

So perhaps a call to WASDOT to inquire about their policy for legally concealed firearms and ideally a specific reference to one of their documents which addresses this situation.

bingo, this is the point. Keep a couple things in mind 1) this topic about concealed carry its about possession in general, which means even if you left a gun properly locked in your trunk. 2) You can call WASDOT but whatever they say does not carry the weight of the law, which is federal. The person on the phone will not be the master of the vessel.

most likely this is a non-issue unless you needed your gun or was caught printing, its just another "gun free zone" law that only burdens the already law abiding. Also the way I read it this also applies to any boat, like your neighbor down the street who wants to take you fishing.

 

[The Heretic]

Also the way I read it this also applies to any boat, like your neighbor down the street who wants to take you fishing.

no - read my post

 

[Koda]

Documented boats are generally those vessels over a certain size and/or weight. A rowboat, dinghy, inflatable, etc., are almost never "documented". Larger fishing boats, some sailing boats over a certain size, yachts, generally ferries, it is safe to assume that they are "documented". To get the details google it, but you are fairly safe going out in most "small" boats.

that makes sense and pretty much how I figured it. Any boat that needs to be registered with the state you would need to disclose.

 

[Koda]

no - read my post

do not most private motor boats require registered with the state?

 

[The Heretic]

do not most private motor boats require registered with the state?

Yes - but that is not the meaning of the word "documented" when it applies to boats within the context of federal law.

"A documented vessel is one that is registered by the Federal Government through the U. S. Coast Guard, rather than titled and numbered by a state. Pleasure vessels of 5 net tons and over (26 feet in length and up) may be documented, and commercial vessels 5 net tons and over must be documented."

I used to have to go out and document fishing boats above a certain size. They have to have a certain type of number permanently embedded into the boat, usually somewhere on the keel. Most of the metal boats had it welded on a plate.

Most private recreational boats are not "documented".

 

[Koda]

Yes - but that is not the meaning of the word "documented" when it applies to boats within the context of federal law.

"A documented vessel is one that is registered by the Federal Government through the U. S. Coast Guard, rather than titled and numbered by a state. Pleasure vessels of 5 net tons and over (26 feet in length and up) may be documented, and commercial vessels 5 net tons and over must be documented."

I used to have to go out and document fishing boats above a certain size. They have to have a certain type of number permanently embedded into the boat, usually somewhere on the keel. Most of the metal boats had it welded on a plate.

Most private recreational boats are not "documented".

ok, good to know.

 

[The Heretic]

The boat the Vic is towing:



That is a documented boat

 

[Koda]

what about small fishing guide boats, like on the Columbia when the run is on...?

 

[The Heretic]

what about small fishing guide boats, like on the Columbia when the run is on...?

Private recreational pleasure craft, especially those under 26 foot and 5 tons of weight, are generally not documented.

Not documented:



Probably not documented:



Probably documented (definitely if it is commercial and not recreational - i.e., for hire, or the operator uses it for a living):

Definitely documented:



Many Charter fishing boats are usually documented because they are commercial and carry passengers and of a certain size.

 

[The Heretic]

If you are in doubt, ask the operator of the vessel, they will usually know the difference between documented by the federal gov. and registered by the state. If they don't know what "documented" means, then the vessel probably isn't documented.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about it. As I said, nobody is going to be asking you about your firearms, even on large ferries. Maybe on an ocean liner. I would never go onto any military vessel with a private firearm without telling the OINC of that vessel beforehand and receiving permission to do so - I did that even when it was the vessel I served on, especially then (we generally had our private guns locked up at the station in a safe that the exec and OINC only had access to if we wanted to have firearms on the station grounds.

 

[Koda]

Heretic, thanks for clarifying.

Back to the topic its just good to know regarding ferry crossings or similar charters, found it interesting anyways. Like I already mentioned most likely this is a non-issue unless you needed your gun or was caught printing or something, its just another "gun free zone" law that only burdens the already law abiding.

 

[edslhead]

I believe a documented boat has a name on the bow instead of a number?

 

[The Heretic]

I believe a documented boat has a name on the bow instead of a number?

That is just cosmetic, not a requirement. You can put the name of a boat on a canoe if you want. A LOT of small recreational boats that are not documented, have names on the bow and/or stern.

It is all about size, weight and whether it is a commercial vessel or recreational.

IIRC, above a certain size, the insurance companies generally wanted the owners of some recreational vessels (especially the really expensive yachts) to have the boats documented. For one thing, it is harder for somebody to steal them and then turn around and sell them as the papers were part of the documentation and filed with the federal government. If you are buying a yacht or fishing vessel that cost you several hundred thousand to multi-millions, you generally will be checking out that kind of documentation and expect it.

 

[mjbskwim]

As far as the ferries in puget sound they are an extension of the freeways so it's just like driving down the freeway
Nothing to report to ANYONE
I believe the ferry that leaves Washington to go to Alaska is the same.