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Buddhalux and Rugerbub hit the nail on the head guys. You do not wanna give any kind of meds to anyone unless you are trained to do so. Aside from the chance of a major lawsuit, you could kill them if there are unknown allergies or contraindications (situations where you don't give it). For instance, if you're gonna give nitro, the patients blood pressure has to be over a certain level. How many of you even know how to get a blood pressure reading?

Trust me on this, I'm an EMT and don't want to see anyone make a bad situation worse because they thought they knew what they were doing.

Also, don't bring a tourniquet. It's redundant and more likely to be used if it doesn't have to be. In reality, it's a last resort.

If you want a basic trauma kit for the field, you should have sterile dressings. Israeli Battle Dressings are ideal and easy to use (and could be cranked down as a tourniquet if needed). You could also bring some sort of splint, but make sure you know how to use it!! Also a bottle of sterile saline solution would be handy to flush out/clean a wound.

Other than that, communication is key. And I'm not just talking about a sat phone, which is nice but not available to everyone and not 100% since it's not a person. Let people know where you are going and when you'll be back so that they can contact S&R if you don't show.
 
I'm a state certified first responder (have been for the last 5 yrs) and I was an army CLS for 6 yrs. There are things that certified people can do and still be covered under the good samaritan laws. If you do anything outside of your training or scope of practice then you are inviting a nasty law suit and probable jail time. For example, in the army I taught IV classes and stuck a few people. Now that I'm an FR, I can only assist patients in taking their meds if they're concious. Of course if the SHTF then all bets are off and save who you can and move on (triage).
 
you should take Wilderness Medical Associates WFR course. I was required to take it as a rock climbing guide, and it was excellent. I also took the two term EMT Basic courses at MHCC, and the WFR course was far more intensive.

FWIW, I was the first responder at several gnarly accidents in the months after the course, and the training was indispensable. The best trauma kit in the world wouldn't come close to substituting for the knowledge and skill from that course.

Wilderness Medical Associates
 
you should take Wilderness Medical Associates WFR course. I was required to take it as a rock climbing guide, and it was excellent. I also took the two term EMT Basic courses at MHCC, and the WFR course was far more intensive.

FWIW, I was the first responder at several ganrly accidents in the months after the course, and the training was indispensable. The best trauma kit in the world wouldn't come close to substituting for the knowledge and skill from that course.

Wilderness Medical Associates

That looks good I have some first aid training but that looks like exactley what I'm looking for thank you
 
Okay guys - I second giving no meds unless you are properly trained. (This is given you have meds to give out anyways.)

Use of tourniquets: The use of a tourniquet has been a last ditched use item for many years but in recent battles in Iraq and Afganistan it has become more widely accepted to use upfront rather than waiting to use it as a last ditched option. A good designed tourniquet (you can get them now days) is actually a great tool when used and applied correctly to a traumatic injury to a limb.

Soldiers are now issued and inserviced on how to use them. Please note these are not the cravats most old soldiers are used to or field expedient pieces of cloth.

Check out what a soldier these days are trained:
http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/EIB/Task_Summary/put-on-a-field-and-pressu.shtml

A good complete trauma kit should have a tourniquet of some kind.
 
I agree that tourniquets are a useful tool, but they shouldn't be a first option. And if you aren't trained, you might be inclined to use it when other methods of stopping bleeding will work. When it comes down to it, you have to be willing to accept that the person you are using it on will almost always (few exceptions) lose that limb.
 
I agree that tourniquets are a useful tool, but they shouldn't be a first option. And if you aren't trained, you might be inclined to use it when other methods of stopping bleeding will work. When it comes down to it, you have to be willing to accept that the person you are using it on will almost always (few exceptions) lose that limb.

I respect that you are an EMT, Thank you! I think you should look into what is happening in our current wars they are finding that a tourniquet can be applied for hours without loss of limb. They also are using them right away to control bleeding while dressing the wounds and then releasing them.
They also are using clotting agents, some of those are great products.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BStuiK_ZgvU
 
Oh, I know full well what's happening medically in the current wars ;). I also know all about quickclot etc. and I know that those are excellent advances and are even carried by medics on some buses here.

My point is that the majority of the people on this forum have little to no first aid experience, let alone experience in major trauma. I know that some do, but most don't. I don't think it's prudent to advise people to go ahead and use a tourniquet if they have a major bleed before trying other options.

In my opinion, it's no different than telling someone to carry nitro or IV's if they don't know how to properly use them. You could do a lot of unnecessary damage. Just my 2cts.
 
Use of tourniquet:

I think in the spirit of these threads, under Survival and Preparedness.... it's best to stop the bleeding. Everyone must know all bleeding must stop at some point. Yes, you may bleed to death but..... it will stop.

Major trauma to a limb that requires immediate stoppage requires just that. There are various schools of thought but you gotta stop the bleeding because all bleeding stops but you don't want to bleed to death to have it stop. Holding arterial pressure points and/or pressure bandages at the site are other methods but for a major injury this is just a stopgap to get a tourniquet on.

So, in a SHTF scenario and you get your arm partially blown off or you are applying "buddy aid" to the same situation. Apply good pressure and if you can't control the bleeding you must apply a tourniquet... end of story.

For minor or intermediate injuries are a total different issue. This isn't I call 911 and I'm the only one injuried type scenario. This is I'm fighting zombies and/or alone in the woods miles away from anyone else.

So, for those planning ahead get a few tourniquets for your disaster first aid kit. They come with simple directions and are relatively easy to use.

Loss of limb versus loss of life??? I think many would make that decision quite easily.

Do know this is not medical advice. Just playing the game. :s0155:
 
you should take Wilderness Medical Associates WFR course. I was required to take it as a rock climbing guide, and it was excellent. I also took the two term EMT Basic courses at MHCC, and the WFR course was far more intensive.

FWIW, I was the first responder at several gnarly accidents in the months after the course, and the training was indispensable. The best trauma kit in the world wouldn't come close to substituting for the knowledge and skill from that course.

Wilderness Medical Associates

Red Cross also runs <broken link removed> courses from time-to-time. I've taken these twice and found them useful. They're normally a 20-hour course w/ a lot of practice scenarios. Really puts you into problem solving mode when they take 1/2-3/4 of the class out into the parking lot as victims in a scenario (gun shot wounds to pregnancy to rafting accidents). It's similar to CERT exercises, but oriented toward first-aid treatment.
 
For you that are EMT's &etc, whats your opinion on quickclot type powders? I picked up a package of 10 on ebay and have a couple in my vehicles, my home FAK and my FAK for hunting etc, I have only had basic and industrial type first aid courses and they never covered using it.

Thanks
 
Ok, so here is my last say on the tourniquet issue, I'm not gonna beat this dead horse too bad :s0114:...

Yes, tourniquets are a useful tool to have, but to suggest that anyone should run out and buy a few, then carry them around and read a little instruction paper on how to use them is just flat out bad advice. That's why I personally discourage it. I know some on here do have proper training, but the majority don't.

If you want to carry any kind of tourniquet, get proper training (i.e. take a class, don't just read about it on a forum). There are indications where you do and don't need a tourniquet. Do you all know what they are? Why do you not need a tourniquet for a smooth/clean amputation? Why or why not? Why is it bad to release the pressure on a tourniquet?

If you don't know the answers to these questions, you shouldn't be using a tourniquet. And those are minor issues that arise in their use. It all boils down to the fact that inappropriately applied tourniquets WILL result in unnecessary morbidity. So get trained on how to do it. I guarantee our soldiers have been!!

That IS medical advice.
 
For you that are EMT's &etc, whats your opinion on quickclot type powders? I picked up a package of 10 on ebay and have a couple in my vehicles, my home FAK and my FAK for hunting etc, I have only had basic and industrial type first aid courses and they never covered using it.

Thanks

There are much better hemostatic agents on the market than QuickClot. Right now the recommendation in Tactical Combat Casualty Care guidelines is Combat Gauze (a pro-coagulant gauze that promotes clotting) made by Z-Medica (makers of QuickClot).

But if QuickClot is all you have, so be it. Just learn how to use it properly. It won't work on internal bleeding (like a gunshot wound), and has to be applied directly to the bleeding artery or vein. Also, QuickClot specifically is known as a thermodynamic agent, so if you use too much, it will cause burns.
 
remember the OP was looking for a kit to keep someone alive in the woods till EMS arrived..he wasnt looking for a "my buddy stepped on a landmine and the zombies are ambushing us kit"...you cant have one kit for both...the second kit requires a trained medic or 2, alot of luck and a helicopter on standby to be successful.

the unitentional mixing of the 2 will get alot of people confused about what they need to carry around.

The absolute number one rule that saves people who are traumatically injured is: gettting them to a trauma level hospital in 60 min or less.

you can augment that 60 min timer thru basic first aid to a point..

so that said...

take a good basic first aid course...A first responder course is fine..EMT level is even better...with any survival situation knowledge is the key to it all.

learn the ABC's of first aid (Airway, Breathing, Circulation) and why they are treated in that order.

stock your trauma kit to cover said ABC's

forget any medications beyond the over the counter stuff. asprin, pepto, neosporin ect are fine...IVs, serious pain meds (like Lidacane) and antibiotics require specific knowledge to use correctly, go bad over time, are hard to get, hard to store and hard to keep..not to mention can do more harm than good if used wrong.

if we wanna talk about survial dentistry, war surgery, or what medical equipment to have in your house for the apocolypse..we should prob have a seperate thread.

remember... Rambo was able to stitch his arm up with a needle and thread, on the side of mountain, in the rain, with the popo hot on his tail....only because it was written in the script...if it was real life the fall woulda killed him
 
Unless you are in oregon. There is a law preventing any such action against a civilian attempting to save another. or so I believe correct me if im wrong but there was something about it on KGW about a month ago.
 
A couple things...first of all every kit needs a couple Isreali Battle Dressings...I carry one on my person everyday and keep them in my cars, backpacks, etc. Of course you can get those from www.ofagear.com

Okay...now for a question...anyone have a great resource for an AED? We need to get one for OFA and I'd just as soon deal with a reputable person/business and connected with our discipline (firearms). Thanks.
 
I know this is a VERY, VERY, VERY Moldie Oldie Thread but then so am I. This might be cross Posted in the Prepers Section and maybe a few others but I'm not sure how to do that maybe a Mod can help.

QuickClot
Duct Tape
Silver Nitrate Sticks
Dermabond or Superglue
Artificial Airway
Adrenalin Shots
Morphine (Oral) can be obtained in small doses for trauma kits with permissive use
Diamox or Pamprin (High Altitude Meds)
Rolly Aluminum Splint
Gauze
Saran Wrap
Ball point Pen
Knife
Sat Phone
latex or nitrile gloves

....some training is better than none

:)I don't see much of a point to repeating myself since he's covered it pretty well. :):):)

If you don't get at least some type of Training then I suggest you don't consider making up such a Kit unless you will be with someone who is WELL Trained!!! :):):)
 
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At least I bothered to Search for older Threads. They're certainly a BIG Bunch of people who can't seem to be Bothered. They don't even Bother to scan the Thread for answers. This is called LAZY!!! :mad::mad::mad:
 
At least I bothered to Search for older Threads. They're certainly a BIG Bunch of people who can't seem to be Bothered. They don't even Bother to scan the Thread for answers. This is called LAZY!!! :mad::mad::mad:
Let me ask you a question..
If a new gun enthusiast came here looking for an answer shall we say "Hush it, do your research before you post"?

Or should we allow others that aren't bothered by answering the question to chime in?

Aren't the new 2A enthusiast what we want/need more of?

Wouldn't we be better served to fan their new found enthusiasm?
 

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