Transporting firearms to and from the range w/o CHL

[Kid@Heart]

I understand the exception for CHL holders. There isn't any debate there. The thread was started by someone expressly asking about transporting a firearm WITHOUT a CHL.

My advice,

Unload it, case it and lock it away separate from the ammo.

 

[1337BaldEagle]

I understand the exception for CHL holders. There isn't any debate there. The thread was started by someone expressly asking about transporting a firearm WITHOUT a CHL.

My advice,

Unload it, case it and lock it away separate from the ammo.

My point being is just like there is STATE exception for CHL there is STATE exception temporally for target shooting. It is really that simple.


And as for your advice, if you want to be careful I would say that is exceptional advice even if the law is more lenient.

Eagle

 

[rick benjamin]

Unload and un-mag your gun.
Unload your mags
Lock your gun in a box such as Gunvault Nanovault 200 here, here, here, or here.
I keep it tethered under driver's seat.
Drive like you belong there.
If stopped with a gun in the box, I won't admit it to anyone, won't open it for anyone. It's a locked secret.
It's real simple, You have the right to not incriminate yourself. Don't screw it up.

 

[ocarolan]

It's worrisome that, as Starrett's book points out regarding people without CHL: "if you are coming home from a gun store with a new firearm, in a box, unloaded, you are breaking the law."

Yes, technically there is no legal way to walk a firearm home from the store, except open carry. We discussed this recently.

http://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/how-to-legally-transport.170385/#post-1105569

That said, the Court ruled in 2008 that ORS 166.250 does not apply to incomplete or broken firearms.* So you could leave the bolt at the store, walk the gun home, then walk home with the bolt.

*However they ruled (bizarrely) that ORS 166.270 does apply, see Goltz or Gortmaker.

 

[Member 34319]

Last I checked having a firearm unloaded in your car was in no way illegal. No matter what part of Oregon your in.

I'm pretty sure you can even have a loaded hand gun in the car as long as it's not on your body. Long gun loaded hints at poaching for whatever crazy reason.

Of coarse with the CHL it can be on your body. Hand gun that is.

 

[1337BaldEagle]

Last I checked having a firearm unloaded in your car was in no way illegal. No matter what part of Oregon your in.

I'm pretty sure you can even have a loaded hand gun in the car as long as it's not on your body. Long gun loaded hints at poaching for whatever crazy reason.

Of coarse with the CHL it can be on your body. Hand gun that is.

Your partially right, 166.250's language states that for you to be prosecuted for Unlawful Possession of a Firearm [in your vehicle] it must be a handgun, it must be concealed AND [emphasis added] readily accessible. There is no consideration if it is loaded or unloaded. And it is also my understanding that for getting charged with 166.240 Carrying a Concealed Weapon, it must be concealed on your person.

One could articulate that a handgun that is not concealed or in plain view, loaded or not, let's say holstered and velcroed to your dashboard, does not meet the requirements for arrest under 166.250 or 166.240. Now this doesn't protect you from getting prosecuted under city or county ordinance like Portland. The only defense we have against that is the exceptions to 166.250. One would have to argue that these exceptions were put in place to protect certain methods of carrying that the legislatures intended [emphasis added] to be legal. If you were to win that argument state law would trump Portland's ordinance and you would be free to carry under those exceptions.

Eagle

 

[ocarolan]

Last I checked having a firearm unloaded in your car was in no way illegal. No matter what part of Oregon your in.

If the firearm is concealed, then ORS 166.250 applies. It has no explicit exception for an unloaded firearm.

Personally I don't think ORS 166.250 was intended to apply to unloaded or disassembled guns. The original law dates back to 1886. Back in those post-territory days, people assumed common sense. I think they would not consider an unfireable gun to be of potential harm, but did not codify that assumption in the law.

Recently however people have been convicted for concealed carry of an unloaded gun, and even an inoperative, broken gun (Briney). The LEOs and trial courts don't really care about the intent of ORS 166.250 - they use weapons charges if available. Fortunately the appeals court overturned Briney, citing the intent of 166.250.

Also I believe ORS 166.210(3) used to require a firearm to be "readily capable of use as a weapon". To me that would require ammunition being available, but the courts affirmed otherwise in Gortmaker. Curiously it seems that language was removed in 2011, not sure why

 

[solv3nt]

Get a fishing license, keep a pole in your car, and make sure to unload all magazines, clips, speed loaders, everything if you plan on going through Portland/Multnomah County. Make it easy on yourself, and get your CHL.

 

[ocarolan]

Get a fishing license, keep a pole in your car, and make sure to unload all magazines, clips, speed loaders, everything if you plan on going through Portland/Multnomah County.

Remember the court has been very stingy about those exceptions. I would not depend upon them in any way. For example, around 2000, a man was arrested for a concealed gun while driving home from fishing at the coast. His conviction was upheld - the Court said the exception did not apply. Because he stayed overnight at the coast, that campsite became his home for the purposes of 166.250(2b).

Similarly in Honzel, the court upheld the conviction and suggested that making a detour on your way home from the target range would disqualify you from the exception.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/or-court-of-appeals/1404977.html#sthash.2B7tg3Dz.dpuf

Make it easy on yourself, and get your CHL.

Yes. A CHL is almost required to use and own a gun in Oregon, if you want to be 100% legal.

 

[Kid@Heart]

Remember the court has been very stingy about those exceptions. I would not depend upon them in any way. For example, around 2000, a man was arrested for a concealed gun while driving home from fishing at the coast. His conviction was upheld - the Court said the exception did not apply. Because he stayed overnight at the coast, that campsite became his home for the purposes of 166.250(2b).

Similarly in Honzel, the court upheld the conviction and suggested that making a detour on your way home from the target range would disqualify you from the exception.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/or-court-of-appeals/1404977.html#sthash.2B7tg3Dz.dpuf



Yes. A CHL is almost required to use and own a gun in Oregon, if you want to be 100% legal.

This is the point I was trying to make in my previous post. (#16)

 

[4Freedom]

I am a Washington resident and got my Oregon CHL.. What excuse do Oregon residents have not to get one?? Do you know what I had to go through to get that little piece of plastic???

 

[1337BaldEagle]

Some people don't like registering with the state as a gun owner.

 

[Jamie6.5]

So, we, and the NRA, various presidents along the way, entire political party platforms, The GOA and the SAF have been fighting registration of guns and owners for 50 years,...

And now you guys are telling us that we should just roll-over and pay the fee, go get photographed, fingerprinted, have the local sheriff crawl up our backsides, and be issued a state issued license so:

Yes. A CHL is almost required to use and own a gun in Oregon, if you want to be 100% legal.

Just WTF exactly, do you guys think "registration" looks like?
I got news for you, it looks just like what you're advocating.

How do you think it works?
I have news for you, it involves asking the state's permission to have a gun and allowing the state to tell you whether or not you can, and then giving them every bit of your info so they will "grant you the privilege" of carrying a gun. In your car/truck, in your house, on your person etc.
B-O-H-I-C-A dude! It's time to get your CHL, or you may as well surrender your firearms cuz you can't safely and legally have them in Oregon without one! /sarc

Why have so many been $pending mega-hours and mega dollars to avoid it if this is the result?
Granted, we're only talking about handguns here, but what is being bantered about here is nothing more than registration of gun owners, under the threat of going to jail for exercising a constitutionally (Oregon and federal) protected RIGHT!
Maybe if you all spent as much time working to get the right people elected, and the right laws passed and/or tossed, as you do following the B.S. case law that is slowly stripping away our/your rights, we wouldn't have this problem.

Either that, or someone is selling CHL classes.

 

[Jamie6.5]

This conversation started over someone asking about the whole state, not one county/community in Oregon.
Personally, I must admit I avoid that area as much as possible, and live 99.9% of my life without ever going there.
And for reason included, and not included in this thread.

To the OP, I would say stay as far away from the place run by hand wringing socio-fascists as possible, (that would be the PDX metro area) and bring your life and guns to Oregon.
When you get here, use common sense, and you won't have any trouble.

 

[etrain16]

This conversation started over someone asking about the whole state, not one county/community in Oregon.
Personally, I must admit I avoid that area as much as possible, and live 99.9% of my life without ever going there.
And for reason included, and not included in this thread.

To the OP, I would say stay as far away from the place run by hand wringing socio-fascists as possible, (that would be the PDX metro area) and bring your life and guns to Oregon.
When you get here, use common sense, and you won't have any trouble.

Actually, in a previous thread, the OP noted that he's coming to Oregon for a job in Portland, so the PDX/Multco specific replies are very applicable.

 

[ocarolan]

Maybe if you all spent as much time working to get the right people elected, and the right laws passed, as you do following the B.S. case law that is slowly stripping away our/your rights, we wouldn't have this problem.

Being CHL-free is fine. Remember this case law discussion is mostly academic. Most Oregonians (police included) don't regard a cased, unloaded rifle as concealed carry, despite the odd rulings.

And of course, almost all weapons charges follow an unrelated arrest, or the defendants advertising themselves as "suspicious", then foolishly consenting to a search by police. If you have any common sense, that will never happen.

Our current gun laws are good relative to most other states. The problem here mostly is the case law, which we cannot influence except by information and increasing the number of firearm owners. Legislating away the case law is risky, since anti-gun lawmakers are likely to stuff the bill.

So it's good to be aware of the law/case law as a worst-case scenario, but no need to get a CHL unless you're really scrupulous or tend to attract attention from LEO.

 

[Jamie6.5]

So, if you want to feel more "comfortable" owning a gun in the state of Oregon you should go register yourself with the county sheriff and the state police?

 

[nonsense]

I am a Washington resident and got my Oregon CHL.. What excuse do Oregon residents have not to get one?? Do you know what I had to go through to get that little piece of plastic???

Some don't want to, some can't (for example permanent resident non-citizens can't get a CHL in Oregon)

 

[4Freedom]

Some don't want to, some can't (for example permanent resident non-citizens can't get a CHL in Oregon)

Good points.. I was being a little sarcastic.. I didn't know a permanent resident couldn't get an Oregon CHL.. Not surprised though..

I am also all for people trying to promote a CHL free world.. That would be ideal.. I'm just saying, for anyone who is not in the above situation and not an idealist, getting an Oregon CHL as an Oregon resident is easy. I had to go through hell and back to get mine.. A trip to Grant County, ouch.. Beautiful country, nice experience, but a big inconvenience.