Transfer Question - So, how does this work?

[Jenm]

Greetings! My first post here, though I have lurked for a while. I have some questions as to how exchanges take place, especially since the new WA laws regarding private sales. Sorry if this is stupid simple, but I've never transferred a firearm using an FFL go-between (in the past it was always a private sale and the last one I did was years ago). I did look for a FAQ page that might cover this stuff but didn't see anything.

So anyway, questions, questions ... How do the logistics usually work? If I'm a seller and have a buyer, I assume we both agree to meet at a gun shop to do the transfer? Does the buyer inspect the merchandise in the parking lot to make sure he wants to buy before we go into the gun shop? (Isn't the new WA law kinda weird about handling someone else's firearm?) Do we both walk in with the firearm and say we want to transfer ownership? Do they then do a NICS? If the buyer doesn't have a WA CCL, is there a waiting period? If so, what happens to the firearm in the meantime?

Thanks, again sorry for the questions but man I'm kinda lost about this stuff.

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[The Heretic]

yes
no - in the shop
yes
yes
i dont think so

sorry typing one handed while eating a popsickle

 

[rick benjamin]

RCW 9.41.113: Firearm sales or transfers—Background checks—Requirements—Exceptions.

 

[Joe13]

I inspect or let them inspect in my car in the lot (gun never leaves my possession). If they want to buy it we go inside and do the transfer. Buyer pays the fees is becoming standard practice.

 

[Joe13]

If it is a pistol and they do not have a CCW then they have to leave the gun with the FFL for the 3 days in WA and the BGC clears.

Make sure you get paid before it goes into the FFL's hands.

 

[The Heretic]

If it is a pistol and they do not have a CCW then they have to leave the gun with the FFL for the 3 days in WA and the BGC clears.

Make sure you get paid before it goes into the FFL's hands.

That is different from Orygun; here it is instant if you pass the check.

When I bought a new retail pistol in WA just before I moved here, before the BGC law passed on private transfers IIRC (it was 2011), I filled out the paperwork and when I got home they called me same day and told me I had passed and I could come pick it up anytime.

It is silly to make someone wait if they passed the BGC.

 

[Joe13]

That is different from Orygun; here it is instant if you pass the check.

When I bought a new retail pistol in WA just before I moved here, before the BGC law passed on private transfers IIRC (it was 2011), I filled out the paperwork and when I got home they called me same day and told me I had passed and I could come pick it up anytime.

It is silly to make someone wait if they passed the BGC.

Agreed.

I think it is supposed to deter impulse suicides or attacks but obviously you can get a long gun same day...

It all needs to go away IMO.

 

[Jenm]

Thanks much for the reply, that pretty much clears the fog.

 

[Diamondback]

I inspect or let them inspect in my car in the lot (gun never leaves my possession). If they want to buy it we go inside and do the transfer. Buyer pays the fees is becoming standard practice.

Interesting... Joe, my interpretation was "possession" meant "any physical change of hands, however brief." @Monica Cowles has had similar concerns put a cramp on her classes... and it's completely terminated my own mentoring activities.

 

[mjbskwim]

Make sure you get paid before it goes into the FFL's hands.

Most definetly,don't make his problem your problems.
If he has a ccp he'll probably pass but not always (ask a few on here)so getting paid first is the way to go.

 

[Flopsweat]

Interesting... Joe, my interpretation was "possession" meant "any physical change of hands, however brief." @Monica Cowles has had similar concerns put a cramp on her classes... and it's completely terminated my own mentoring activities.

Well, here are a couple of things to consider - and this is not legal advice as I'm neither qualified not inclined to offer such.

If you have your hand on the gun, and the other person happens to be touching it too, how can that be a transfer? "Can I see the gun?" "Sure, but I can't let go of it."

(f) The temporary transfer of a firearm (i) between spouses or domestic partners; (ii) if the temporary transfer occurs, and the firearm is kept at all times, at an established shooting range authorized by the governing body of the jurisdiction in which such range is located; (iii) if the temporary transfer occurs and the transferee's possession of the firearm is exclusively at a lawful organized competition involving the use of a firearm, or while participating in or practicing for a performance by an organized group that uses firearms as a part of the performance;

If you're mentoring at a gun range, you may want to ponder what "at all times" must mean. If the law was intended to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, it would seem to me that "at all times" should mean only while the gun is being shared, not for ever and ever until the sun supernovas and melts the gun.

If that seems a little shaky, or you're not at a range, you might want to lawfully organize a competition. Seems to me it's lawful for me to say to a fellow shooter "Bet I can hit closer to the bullseye than you can." I'm not sure what constitutes "organized" but it would seem to me to be the opposite of "random".

Your Sheriff may have announced that he has no intention of enforcing the law because it's unenforceable. My understanding is that 22 of the 39 Sheriffs in WA have already done so.
NRA-ILA | Washington: Majority of Washington State Sheriffs Oppose I-594

 

[Joe13]

Interesting... Joe, my interpretation was "possession" meant "any physical change of hands, however brief." @Monica Cowles has had similar concerns put a cramp on her classes... and it's completely terminated my own mentoring activities.

**just re read what I typed and think it may come across as crass or rude but that wasn't my intention, but rather the stupidity around the new laws that aren't even being enforced get me a bit agitated.




I have tinted windows all around - who's to say I don't keep one hand on the gun at all times....



I've not seen any gun shop people that are real keen on letting 2 strangers just walk in with a gun and start 'checking it out'.



I don't sell FTF anymore and if someone wants to see something inside my vehicle then it will take a hell of a lot of effort to prove I broke an ambiguous law.

When they make it more clear as to what we can and can not do -then I'll adjust accordingly as I feel necessary.



I will also go shooting with people and we want to try each other's guns so we leave the gun in the bay and switch for a few mags, leave the gun in the bay and switch back. (At a range where I know off duty LEO are present and they have never ever mentioned it or called for backup)


If they want to prosecute me for that then I'll probably be the first one because I have yet to hear of anyone going to jail for letting someone see/touch a gun without a transfer first.


It's already a silly law and I'm not in the gun business so I'm not going to go full retard and paranoid about how I go about arranging a sale or buy before I walk into the FFL to finish the deal with a transfer.



The more power people give these bills in OR and WA the more restrictions that will pass soon in the future.



(AND I'm an ordained minister and had no intentions of breaking the law so I have a get out of jail for free card in my wallet if the AR guy set the precedent)

 

[Jenm]

Why exactly should I receive payment before the FFL gets involved (just wondering).

Ok, I've read the newer posts and now I'm thinking the exchange would go something like this ... Meet up in the parking lot of the gun shop. Buyer gets into my car and I keep possession of the firearm while showing the buyer what he wants to see. If buyer ok's the purchase, get payment from him at that point. Walk into gun shop together while I'm still in possession of the firearm. Tell clerk what we're doing and follow his instructions. Sound right?

Can't believe I'm even asking this stuff, but that's what it's come down to I guess.

 

[Joe13]

Why exactly should I receive payment before the FFL gets involved (just wondering).

Ok, I've read the newer posts and now I'm thinking the exchange would go something like this ... Meet up in the parking lot of the gun shop. Buyer gets into my car and I keep possession of the firearm while showing the buyer what he wants to see. If buyer ok's the purchase, get payment from him at that point. Walk into gun shop together while I'm still in possession of the firearm. Tell clerk what we're doing and follow his instructions. Sound right?

Can't believe I'm even asking this stuff, but that's what it's come down to I guess.

The gun goes to the FFL's books when you start. If the buyer fails the check then you have to go back to retrieve the gun. If it is delayed and passes the buyer goes to get the gun. The transfer fee is paid as the FFL takes possession.

If it is delayed you have no recourse if you haven't been paid yet and the buyer has to come back after he clears.

 

[Flopsweat]

Why exactly should I receive payment before the FFL gets involved (just wondering).

Ok, I've read the newer posts and now I'm thinking the exchange would go something like this ... Meet up in the parking lot of the gun shop. Buyer gets into my car and I keep possession of the firearm while showing the buyer what he wants to see. If buyer ok's the purchase, get payment from him at that point. Walk into gun shop together while I'm still in possession of the firearm. Tell clerk what we're doing and follow his instructions. Sound right?

Can't believe I'm even asking this stuff, but that's what it's come down to I guess.

I don't hand over the gun or take payment until we've filled out the 4473. I don't want "payment" or "transaction" to be confused with "transfer". The key thing is to not be left with your gun at the gun shop and no cash in your pocket. And don't take checks. But you probably already knew that.

 

[Jenm]

How long does NICS typically take? Didn't consider that. If there's a significant delay, I go home with the buyer's money? And if he eventually does NOT clear, he has to trust me to meet up again and return him the money?

Before the new law, none of this was any concern.

 

[JTech]

How long does NICS typically take? Didn't consider that. If there's a significant delay, I go home with the buyer's money? And if he eventually does NOT clear, he has to trust me to meet up again and return him the money?

Before the new law, none of this was any concern.

Outside of what you feel is "doing the right thing" you have no obligation to go back to the place of business where the transfer took place, re-take possession of the gun and refund the the buyers money for said item. If they do not know up front that they cannot pass the check (eventually) then they should not be buying the gun. I know the "system" gets held up at times and errors put good people on the bad guy list at times, but that is out of your control. You sold them something in good faith and within the framework of the transfer laws. The rest is on them.

 

[Flopsweat]

Outside of what you feel is "doing the right thing" you have no obligation to go back to the place of business where the transfer took place, re-take possession of the gun and refund the the buyers money for said item. If they do not know up front that they cannot pass the check (eventually) then they should not be buying the gun. I know the "system" gets held up at times and errors put good people on the bad guy list at times, but that is out of your control. You sold them something in good faith and within the framework of the transfer laws. The rest is on them.

I'd probably give them their money back. Never underestimate the federal government's capacity to screw things up.

 

[Joe13]

I'd probably give them their money back. Never underestimate the federal government's capacity to screw things up.

I wouldn't feel right not giving the money back but agree with the above - it is the responsibility of the buyer to know if be can or can not pass a BGC.

 

[Flopsweat]

I wouldn't feel right not giving the money back but agree with the above - it is the responsibility of the buyer to know if be can or can not pass a BGC.

I probably could have been more precise. I agree that you should know whether you're going to pass the BGC, but even if you are sure that you know, the Feds can still screw it up royally. You may have passed dozens of checks and then suddenly you fail for no reason. I've read stories of people spending years and thousands of dollars trying to clear up exactly that sort of situation.