Toomey/Manchin Bill Worse Than It Appears

[TheHumungus]

The Volokh Conspiracy » The ?Pro-Gun? Provisions of Manchin-Toomey are Actually a Bonanza of Gun Control

Please keep calling and emailing. This thing has got to be defeated.

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[TheHumungus]

All four senators from Oregon and Washington are liberal Democrats. Don't waste your time.

This attitude is why the liberal fascists are winning. Don't roll over and play dead. Fight!

Enough pressure can be put on them causing them not to act.

 

[twoclones]

All four senators from Oregon and Washington are liberal Democrats. Don't waste your time.

It's NEVER a waste of time to remind your Legislators that you care about your rights. This ^ kind of apathy looses battles.

 

[PiratePast40]

All four senators from Oregon and Washington are liberal Democrats. Don't waste your time.

If you don't let them know how you feel, the next words out of their mouths will be that since they didn't hear any objections, all of the voters must be for it.

 

[bill97024]

^^^ What they said. Yes, Oregon and Washington have liberal idiots for representation presently, but they still need to know that they are not representing their constituents when they vote to proceed with legislation that will infringe on our 2A rights, that they are not abiding by the oath they took to defend the constitution of their state and country, and that they are being watched by people who vote. They work for us, not the other way around and they need to hear about it when we are not happy with how they are representing us. I've gotten nothing but patronizing replies from Wyden and Merkley, but I still email them weekly at least and let them know that come election time the decisions they are making today will affect my decision regarding who to vote for to represent me. Keep calling, keep writing, keep the pressure on your congresscritters. Now is not the time to give up, but to redouble our efforts to ensure nothing gets through congress. Stay strong brothers and sisters.

 

[Don H]

Are you sure this bill is bad?

Alan Gottlieb was on Guntalk on Sunday. I'm just now listening to it but the way Mr. Gottlieb describes it, this could be a good bill:
http://traffic.libsyn.com/guntalk/130414guntalkA.mp3

 

[Vantage]

Are you sure this bill is bad?

Alan Gottlieb was on Guntalk on Sunday. I'm just now listening to it but the way Mr. Gottlieb describes it, this could be a good bill:
http://traffic.libsyn.com/guntalk/130414guntalkA.mp3

Yes... it is bad.

Two Things That Suck About Manchin-Toomey | The Truth About GunsThe Truth About Guns

Virginia Citizens Defense League Opposes Manchin-Toomey Gun Bill | The Truth About GunsThe Truth About Guns

 

[Dave Workman]

All four senators from Oregon and Washington are liberal Democrats. Don't waste your time.

Well, that's not necessarily the right approach.
E-mail and call...let them know there are gun people out there watching them. Now the thing is, if Chuckie hates this bill, there's GOT to be something in it to love....

Schumer goes nuts over alternative gun measure

<broken link removed>

 

[Don H]

Did you listen to the interview? Are you saying that Alan Gottlieb is wrong? I'm going to read the bill tonight but Mr. Gottlieb is a good guy so my gut feeling is to believe him. Anyway, I'll read the bill for myself tonight. Thanks.

 

[gcban]

Yes... it is bad.

Two Things That Suck About Manchin-Toomey | The Truth About GunsThe Truth About Guns

Virginia Citizens Defense League Opposes Manchin-Toomey Gun Bill | The Truth About GunsThe Truth About Guns

I read the article from the Virginia Citizens Defense League and they made an error in my opinion. They state:

"2. If you say you have a gun for sale and either list it on the internet or post something about it in a "publication," then the gun MUST be sold through a dealer at that point. If the buyer posts in either place that he is looking for a gun, the gun he purchases will also require a background check. The only way to sell a gun to a non-family member is if you are NOT at a gun show and never make mention of wanting to sell the gun on the internet or in any kind of publication. Basically, you would have to do it by word of mouth only. Good luck with that! What are you going to do &#8211; walk down a street and ask everyone you pass if they want to buy a gun from you?"

That is incorrect. In the Toomey-Manchin Bill:

SEC 122 &#8211; FIREARMS TRANSFERS:

Go to line item (4). Paragraph (1) (A&B) States that if you advertise to buy or sell on the internet or any other medium OR sell or buy at a gun show than a NICS check must be done.

This is the main part:

Paragraph (2) then states that Paragraph 1 (above) DOES NOT APPLY if the transfer is done thru an FFL as if the weapon was a part of their own inventory (NICS or valid CCW permit would be permitted as check), OR the transaction is done by private parties in their home state as long as your state allows private sales, as most do. Based on that language, for forums like this one it would be business as usual for private transactions.

That's the way it reads as published now. I am against any change but my gut feeling tells me that this version is going to squeak by the Senate and maybe even the house if there are enough good pro gun riders (amendments) that following along. That way the House, The Senate and the divider and chief can all say they did something. Just my 2 cents. -G

 

[twoclones]

I think that supporting the Toomey-Manchin Bill just might be the best way to get the other bills defeated. And I wouldn't mind being able to buy a handgun while out of state...

 

[Botte Hork]

I like Gottlieb and his SAF. I don't really understand why there is the need for him to have multiple organizations doing pretty much the same thing (SAF, CCRKBA, keepandbeararms.com) with pretty much the same people (Gottlieb, Tartaro, Versnel and our own Dave Workman).

Don't get me wrong, I'm a life member of SAF and I think they do good work, but I'm getting the idea more and more it's a lot of fog by the same people.

 

[Don H]

The Common Sense Gun Lobby Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms

The Citizens Committee is supporting the Manchin-Toomey substitute bill to knock out the very bad draconian Schumer Background Check bill. The Citizens Committee and our attorney lobbyist had a hand in influencing and drafting parts of this substitute amendment.

This proposed bill bans any federal gun registry and carries a 15 year prison term for anyone who violates it. It also protects and expands a number of pro-gun rights measures as well.

The Citizens Committee has an agreement that additional amendments supported by Manchin and Toomey will be offered to make it better, including making it possible to get federal firearms rights restored negating the current Schumer legislation that blocks it.

These advances for gun rights cannot be made unless we win the Senate vote to substitute the Manchin-Toomey language for Schumer's invasive, terrible and overreaching background check that is in the current version of the bill.

If you read the proposed substitute bill, you can see the numerous advances for our Constitutional right to keep and bear arms that it contains: interstate sales of handguns, veteran gun rights restoration, travel with firearms protection, civil and criminal immunity lawsuit protection if you sell a gun plus more. It also exempts the sale or transfer of firearms between family members and friends as well as sales outside a commercial venue from a background check. If you have any kind of current state permit to own, use or carry no additional background check is done.

The Citizens Committee defends the Second Amendment every day. We have been working for our right to keep and bear arms for over 40 years and will never give up the fight

We are supporting no change to the current laws other than adding key parts that help increase our rights such as restoration and reciprocity. Our support is conditional on these very critical and essential amendments.

IF any of these parts are taken out of the bill or if anything is added that conflicts with our beliefs in the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms, The Citizens Committee WILL NOT support the bill.

Alan Gottlieb
Chairman

 

[Dave Workman]

I like Gottlieb and his SAF. I don't really understand why there is the need for him to have multiple organizations doing pretty much the same thing (SAF, CCRKBA, keepandbeararms.com) with pretty much the same people (Gottlieb, Tartaro, Versnel and our own Dave Workman).

Don't get me wrong, I'm a life member of SAF and I think they do good work, but I'm getting the idea more and more it's a lot of fog by the same people.

Easy to explain. (and I'll probably get the tax statuses bass akwards..)

SAF is a 501 C3 tax exempt foundation that does strictly educational and legal work. NO LOBBYING, no political campaigning or endorsements...NOTHING legislative.

CCRKBA is a 501 C4 that does grassroots organizing and activities, takes positions on issues, works with politicians, works on issues... DOES NOT do lawsuits, except on rare occasions like the Seattle parks gun ban.

They have clearly divided responsibilities and missions.

 

[Botte Hork]

Easy to explain. (and I'll probably get the tax statuses bass akwards..)

SAF is a 501 C3 tax exempt foundation that does strictly educational and legal work. NO LOBBYING, no political campaigning or endorsements...NOTHING legislative.

CCRKBA is a 501 C4 that does grassroots organizing and activities, takes positions on issues, works with politicians, works on issues... DOES NOT do lawsuits, except on rare occasions like the Seattle parks gun ban.

They have clearly divided responsibilities and missions.

Fair enough, thank you Dave!

It was a little confusing to see the different groups with pretty much the same folks (and the lovely 1993-ish websites that SAF and keepandbeararms.com have ) and gave me a bit of a 'smoke & mirrors' taste in the mouth. This makes sense, thanks again. And keep up the good work! I felt better sending money towards SAF than throwing it onto the lavish big NRA pile. My tax return next year will agree.

 

[quneur]

The NRA should sponsor a program for FFL record storage. For a small monthly fee for storage on their system, the FFL could send all their records to the NRA electronically. So, if the ATF wants to see the FFL records, let the NRA deal with them.

 

[Diamondback]

Easy way to explain SAF/CCRKBA is they're kind of like NRA (weapons safety ed) versus NRA-ILA (the political arm, separately chartered and separate tax status). That a good comparison, Dave?

 

[tiggers97]

Votes are being cast right now. Link to C-Span if you need to watch.

 

[chainsaw]

Wyden voted yes,but we all knew he would.