Toomey/Manchin Amendment Vote at 1:00 pm today..

TheHumungus · Apr 17, 2013

Keep calling and e-mailing! We can defeat it!

Kable · Apr 17, 2013

If it dies I just wonder what their next move will be. Hopefully they move on but we all know they will try something sneaky like adding amendments to unrelated bills. We need to stay focused and make sure we don't let them slip anything through the cracks

Oklahomie · Apr 17, 2013

Like sneaking a bill onto a defense budget....wait.

TheHumungus · Apr 17, 2013

The fight will not be over. Far from it. As long as there are liberal fascists living and breathing, they will be back to ban our guns. Just another battle in a never-ending war.

Dave Workman · Apr 17, 2013

CCRKBA pulls support for Manchin-Toomey

The Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms announced this morning that it has withdrawn its support for the Manchin-Toomey alternative background check measure because a key amendment for restoration of firearms rights is not being considered.

<broken link removed>

TheHumungus · Apr 17, 2013

I challenge any liberal who wants more gun control or who believes that the public should not be able to own guns in common use to begin the process of a Constitutional Convention to ratify a repeal of the 2nd Amendment. That is the only honorable way for you to do it. You will continue to lose if you try to get the courts to do it, try to use tragedies to do it, or try to chip away at gun ownership at the margins. Either have a straight up fight, or go away.

coop44 · Apr 17, 2013

TheHumungus said:
I challenge any liberal who wants more gun control or who believes that the public should not be able to own guns in common use to begin the process of a Constitutional Convention to ratify a repeal of the 2nd Amendment. That is the only honorable way for you to do it. You will continue to lose if you try to get the courts to do it, try to use tragedies to do it, or try to chip away at gun ownership at the margins. Either have a straight up fight, or go away.

I honestly do not think most politicians understand how it is supposed to work.

Don H · Apr 17, 2013

Excerpts from an interesting commentary over at http://www.shootingwire.com/

Dangerous Times, Dangerous Games, High Stakes
...

And the question of giving up anything when it comes to gun rights is causing a lot of angry conversation among the ranks of gun enthusiasts. For the past few days, the Second Amendment Foundation has been feeling the heat from angry Second Amendment advocates who think the group has sold out to Washington political pressure.

The SAF says that just isn't so. "I knew I was going to get heat for it, but I'm convinced it's the right thing to do," says the Second Amendment Foundation's Alan Gottlieb, almost before I got "hello" out of my mouth in a phone conversation on Monday evening. "It's not like I didn't expect it, but there's been a lot of vitriol without any consideration of the situation."

The "situation" is the hornet's nest Gottlieb kicked over with the announcement that he and the SAF not only endorsed the controversial Manchin-Toomey amendment to a completely toxic bill proposed by New York Senator (and eternal anti-gun guy) Chuck Schumer, they helped draft it.

....

But Gottlieb's standing by his guns, saying the Manchin-Toomey proposal does more than modify Schumer's proposal- it effectively neuters the major intent of the bill- creation of universal background checks and a gun registry.

The Manchin-Toomey proposal does include some good points: interstate sales of handguns, restoration of veteran's gun rights, protection for traveling with firearms, civil and criminal immunity lawsuit protection should you sell a gun, and a clause that does call for background checks at gun shows, but really doesn't limit personal sales.

If that sounds confusing, it's because the provision says that two independent people conducting a transaction at a gun show must run a background check.

What it also says is that, should two people meet, consider a potential deal and not close it at the gun show, there's no need for the background check. Setting the table for a sale is not the same thing as making a sale. Consummating the deal elsewhere wipes out the gun show provision.

And there's the provision that says a concealed carry permit exempts you from a background check in a gun transaction.

But why dance with the devil, knowing you're going to catch hell for doing it?

....

Gottlieb says he has made it clear that if amendments added to Manchin-Toomey, didn't strengthen gun rights protections, "we'll walk away from the whole deal."

Now, the Second Amendment Foundation and the NRA once again find themselves in conflicting positions.

...

"I know we don't agree on this one," he said, "but I'm not certain an all-or-nothing position is workable in this set of circumstances. The country -including gun owners- think some changes -especially expanded backgound checks- aren't a bad thing."

"In that sort of climate," he continued, "it's unreasonable to believe that nothing will pass through Congress. So, we decided to step out and take the lead on creating provisions that actually strengthen the rights of gun owners."

That argument, however, isn't carrying the weight with other Second Amendment advocates, including David Codrea.

"And while Gottlieb claims "the gun-grabbers have stepped into our trap" and some of my colleagues haven't quite figured it out yet," Codrea wrote, "early reactions from some of those colleagues are not boding well for their conversion and acceptance.

"Unlike some of my friends, I'll disagree with them and say I don't think Gottlieb is doing this because he wants to sell anybody out. I've been wrong about people before, and can't say I know the man well, but I like and respect what I've seen of him in personal interactions, acknowledge the significant and creative contributions he's made to the cause of the right to keep and bear arms, believe he's sincere (and probably a genius to boot), and believe he's also pretty damned gutsy to risk so much knowing in advance he'd incur a severe backlash and that some may never forgive him for this perceived betrayal.
...

Watch, read and study this one along with the rest of us. It is important to everyone.

--Jim Shepherd

beavertonbuck · Apr 17, 2013

Quiet frankly I don't buy Alan's position on this. He wants us to think there is some super secret plan that will allow them to challenge the law down the road or make the law better for us. I think there might be another reason for him to be involved in this that has been brought up.

CCRBKA has been trying to beef up its lobbying presence but obviously has to compete with the NRA. By having a hand in drafting a bill they might be able to hold it out as a success and thus gain more donors and money.