Tools question (power saws)

[Gunner3456]

Cbzdel, we even made the maple hardwood flooring (see second pic down) on a table saw. I had a chance to buy the cured maple really cheap (there is a housing recession you know) so we ripped the boards in both directions and cut them to length everywhere there was a knot.

They sell a set that replaces the table saw blade. One part cuts the tongues and the other part cuts grooves. You do each edge that way on the table saw with the fence and you have flooring. After it is installed, you use the big (rented) sander to smooth it and then you apply the finish, sanding between coats. I saved about 2/3 the cost of actual maple flooring that way. That job alone way more than paid for a good table saw.

 

[speelyei]

If you have no saw whatsoever, I would encourage you to buy a worm drive saw. I have a Mag 77, and have been very happy with it. If I could have only one saw, that would be it.

If you are not going to "get into" woodworking, and are doing rough-in framing and maintenance carpentry, you may be happier with the chop saw. I bought a rebuilt DeWalt compound-miter saw on eBay, and it is a fine tool, I believe it cost me around $265 with shipping.

I would agree that a table saw is the core of a home woodworking shop. You can spend thousands, or get an older cast-iron table craftsman saw off craigslist for $100. Those old saws can be really good, but may require some expertise to set up and refurbish.
I have a Makita 10" table saw, which is a smaller, lightweight, portable saw. I got it used for $150, and had to do some maintenance. I also bought a Rousseau saw stand for it, which makes the saw more stable, increases the rip width to 30", and gives you a much more robust rip fence. It also increases the surface area of the table by 2x. This makes for a reasonably priced, portable, storable unit that is of decent quality.

 

[Father of four]

Would a bunch of you experts please get over here with your skillsaws? I need some help finishing this. Especially, I need to cut fluting in some more trim boards.

More than one of our members has seen this, so don't go thinking I pulled these pics off the web. This is all hand done. No buying fancy trim boards. They were made on-site from blank lumber.

Nice work.

I'd like to come on out to Medford so you can show me how you can cut that crown molding that I see in your picture with your table saw. Cutting those 45's on that handrail must be a trick! Cutting a 10 ft piece of crown molding upside down and backwards on your table saw would be fun for me to watch! Heck cutting some of the small trim at 45 degree and 22.5 degree cuts would be fun to see also.

Yeah I wonder how many of those nice tight angled cuts were made with a table saw?

That looks like a great job Gunner.

 

[motoman98]

If you have decided on a Table Saw, to get good results it must have a good fence. Most inexpensive table saws' fences are junk. Look around alot!

 

[gunnails]

Consider a radial arm saw, that is what we used back in the day for production siding jobs and such. I t will accept a dado blade, you can rip siding and ply wood. and works similar to a chop saw also.

If I could only own one saw it would without a doubt be my worm drive Skill saw.

Gunner your house looks nice and your skills are good, but I aint buying that you formed all of that wood and fit everything together with a table saw. Suppose you made your own nails too.

 

[d1esel]

Definitely a router involved.
And paint covers wood putty quite nicely.

In all seriousness it does look really nice.

 

[Mookie]

A few pieces of advice from a person who has the tools and bought a lot of the wrong tools then had to buy good tools.
The only time Harbor Freight should be mentioned in buying a tool should be along these lines, "go 3 blocks past harbor freight and it's on your right".
DeWalt is the best of the low end power tools, comparable to Craftsman Professional. Makita, Bosch, Hitachi, and Rigid, and only Rigid because it has an AWESOME warranty.
Don't go cheap.
Find out exactly what you will need and buy better, cuz you will always need more than you think you will need. If you think you will only need a 10" single bevel sliding miter, you will need a double bevel 12" within a week.
Buy a good blade, a very good blade. My blades cost more than some of my saws.
Don't listen to old people on what tools to buy unless they keep themselves current on tools and such. Don't know how to explain it, but you will understand instantly what I mean when it comes up. Same type of person who says things like, "carburation is better than fuel injection".
You will most likely end up with 8 different saws.
DON'T let someone sell you something you don't need.

 

[Natty Bumpo]

"In tools and skill we put our trust....and what they can't do, putty must."

That said, I agree with the Craigslist proponents.

I would get a cast iron table saw....Delta, Rockwell, (some) Craftsman, Powermatic, Walker-Turner, Jet with an average fence and a 1.5 HP belt driven motor. A cast iron table is a must. No aluminum, no plastic. Stay away from the "benchtop" saws. If you don't need the TS on this project, you will on the next....if you own a home.

If you outgrow this saw, you can sell it for pretty much what you paid for it ($100-200) and upgrade. Table saws haven't changed that much over the years....except for better rip fences. But they have also degraded in quality over the years. The older saws typically have better castings and flatter tables resulting in more accurate work with upgraded fences. They are fairly easy to tune up and to adjust. When buying a used table saw, I bring my own blade and insist on making a couple of rips on a board before I buy.

For carpentry work, the most accurate fence or the flattest table probably isn't necessary..."adequate" will do. For what you will pay for a marginal modern "contractor's" table saw ($400-700), you can get a really nice vintage model for half that or a used modern one for about half. Craigs usually has at least a few decent ones to choose from every day.

For a "chopsaw", I would recommend buying new unless you can find one that is not a worn out and beat up saw being unloaded by some builder. Chances are it has been banged around a lot in the back of a pickup. Buy a standard 10" or 12" (non-sliding) compound miter saw in a major brand (DeWalt, Bosch, Makita, etc). Sliding saw are spendy and probably overkill for your immediate needs. Typically, you can expect better miter cuts from a good CMS than from an average quality miter gauge on a table saw.

Whatever you do, start out with a decent quality new blade (spend $40-50 for a 10").

 

[Augustus]

I am in need of a power saw to help speed up my projects. I can only afford one at the moment though.

I cant decide between a table saw and a chop saw.

I am going to be building a fence, re-siding a portion of the house, and framing in (2) closets.

Any input?

I am in the "business" if I hired a sub to do what the your doing and a subcontractor showed up with out a shop saw, I'd fire him on the spot.

The pictures that Gunner3456 posted are nice but don't pertain to what the OP is wanting to accomplish. No professionals would show up to do moulding work like that without a quality chop saw.

A good shop saw and a worm drive skill saw will do a fine job for what your wanting to do. Practice using the skill saw, where you focus your eyes on the line your cutting makes all the difference for a nice straight cut. Practice.

 

[Gunner3456]

Nice work.

I'd like to come on out to Medford so you can show me how you can cut that crown molding that I see in your picture with your table saw.

You clamp a board as a fence at a 45 degree angle across the table. You raise the blade slightly and push the board over the blade at an angle. That cuts the rounded hollow! You do that to all boards. Now you raise the blade slightly and run them all across again. You keep doing that to all boards, raising the blade each time until you get that hollowed part just as you want it! Of course you use feather boards. You put the last detail in with a horizontal shaper, then cut the square edges on the table saw. I never said I had only a table saw, but there was never a skill saw used!

I was joking with the "skill saw first" guys.

Cutting those 45's on that handrail must be a trick!

It's done with a chop saw, using roller extensions and the table saw to support the work.

Cutting a 10 ft piece of crown molding upside down and backwards on your table saw would be fun for me to watch!

See above. And, some of them are 24 feet long, not 10 feet.

Heck cutting some of the small trim at 45 degree and 22.5 degree cuts would be fun to see also.

That's easy.

Yeah I wonder how many of those nice tight angled cuts were made with a table saw?

Just about all of them. The reason you don't have them is because you don't know how!!

That looks like a great job Gunner.

Thanks. What looks hard or impossible can be easy if you know the tricks.

 

[Gunner3456]

Gunner your house looks nice and your skills are good, but I aint buying that you formed all of that wood and fit everything together with a table saw. Suppose you made your own nails too.

I never said I did it all with a table saw. I was joking with the guys who said the first and best tool to own was a skill saw. No skill saw was ever used for any of that work.

 

[Father of four]

Thanks. What looks hard or impossible can be easy if you know the tricks.

Yeah? To each man his own. I myself have been doing Remodeling and Construction for over 14 years. There are many ways to skin a cat. Or cut crown molding..HEHEHE. I can pretty much build a house from the ground up but the tools I require are more then just a table saw. HEHEHE.. Your work looks great though!

Now if I could actually get someone to hire me here in Portland...Its tough out there in my line of work. Good luck Cbzdel and watch out for those fingers!!!!!

 

[Gunner3456]

Yeah? To each man his own. I myself have been doing Remodeling and Construction for over 14 years. There are many ways to skin a cat. Or cut crown molding..HEHEHE. I can pretty much build a house from the ground up but the tools I require are more then just a table saw. HEHEHE.. Your work looks great though!

Now if I could actually get someone to hire me here in Portland...Its tough out there in my line of work. Good luck Cbzdel and watch out for those fingers!!!!!

Good luck to you and I mean it. I know it's slow out there.

I designed the house, drew the plans myself, got them approved by the county, and supervised or did all the work myself. I subbed out everything I didn't do, but supervised it.

I never once said I used only a table saw. I can't, however, remember ever using the skill saw after the concrete work and framing were done. The siding is concrete Hardy Plank, and the butt joints would have looked awful with a skill saw.

Here's the painting of the woodwork, and the finished house, siding, dormers and all. It's a three story house and it was a real project. In this slow building economy, I got the materials and labor cheap.





View attachment 205860

 

[Jamie6.5]

Consider a radial arm saw, that is what we used back in the day for production siding jobs and such. I t will accept a dado blade, you can rip siding and ply wood. and works similar to a chop saw also.

^^^ This!

It is the only one that will do what both the table saw and the chop saw will do.
And you can probably get one for le$$ than the other two combined.

 

[Gunner3456]

Originally Posted by gunnails View Post
Consider a radial arm saw, that is what we used back in the day for production siding jobs and such. I t will accept a dado blade, you can rip siding and ply wood. and works similar to a chop saw also.

^^^ This!

It is the only one that will do what both the table saw and the chop saw will do.
And you can probably get one for le$$ than the other two combined.

"Back in the day" is the operative phrase here. A radial arm saw is the jack of all trades, meaning really the best at nothing. Good carpenters have gone to the sliding, compound miter saws and the table saw.

Skill saws are for rough work like framing.

Am I the only one who's seen Norm Abrams make a table saw dance on "The New Yankee Workshop?" Am I the only one who's seen his home made straight and 45 degree huge miter gauges? Am I the only one who's seen him make intricate moldings with it?

A radial arm saw lacks accuracy and stability and won't replace modern quality tools. They are few and far between now in good shops.

 

[claypigeon]

"Back in the day" is the operative phrase here. A radial arm saw is the jack of all trades, meaning really the best at nothing. Good carpenters have gone to the sliding, compound miter saws and the table saw.

Skill saws are for rough work like framing.

Am I the only one who's seen Norm Abrams make a table saw dance on "The New Yankee Workshop?" Am I the only one who's seen his home made straight and 45 degree huge miter gauges? Am I the only one who's seen him make intricate moldings with it?

A radial arm saw lacks accuracy and stability and won't replace modern quality tools. They are few and far between now in good shops.

You should be very proud of your home and the work you have done. It is beautiful. I have no doubt that you did most of that on a table saw. They are very versatile.

That being said the OP is "building a fence, re-siding a portion of the house, and framing in (2) closets."

He did not mention installing crown molding or any other molding. He did not mention any finnish work.

A worm drive is a good choice for the projects at hand and if you choose to use cement siding, you can buy a blade for that just like you would for any other saw.

 

[deadeye]

"Back in the day" is the operative phrase here. A radial arm saw is the jack of all trades, meaning really the best at nothing. Good carpenters have gone to the sliding, compound miter saws and the table saw.

Skill saws are for rough work like framing.

Am I the only one who's seen Norm Abrams make a table saw dance on "The New Yankee Workshop?" Am I the only one who's seen his home made straight and 45 degree huge miter gauges? Am I the only one who's seen him make intricate moldings with it?

A radial arm saw lacks accuracy and stability and won't replace modern quality tools. They are few and far between now in good shops.

So if you buy a quality brand radial arm it will rip boards, do a cross cut and also miter cuts accurately. If you can only afford one tool this would work best for the jobs needing done by the OP. As far as Norm Abrams goes dont believe everything you see on TV.

 

[Jamie6.5]

Good carpenters have gone to the sliding, compound miter saws and the table saw.<snip>
A radial arm saw lacks accuracy and stability and won't replace modern quality tools. They are few and far between now in good shops.

Carpenters working in the field may not tote along their radial arm saw true.
The sliding chop saw is basically the same principle though, and more portable. The problem is it won't rip.

I doubt you will find a cabinet shop that doesn't have a radial arm saw, and rely on it daily.

 

[Mookie]

I doubt you will find a cabinet shop that doesn't have a radial arm saw, and rely on it daily.

4 years in a cabinet shop, never saw one. We had good tools.

 

[Gunner3456]

You should be very proud of your home and the work you have done. It is beautiful. I have no doubt that you did most of that on a table saw. They are very versatile.

That being said the OP is "building a fence, re-siding a portion of the house, and framing in (2) closets."

How's he going to rip fence boards, which always has to be done at some point?

He did not mention installing crown molding or any other molding. He did not mention any finnish work.

I consider installing siding finish work.

A worm drive is a good choice for the projects at hand and if you choose to use cement siding, you can buy a blade for that just like you would for any other saw.

You haven't seen the way those special blades warp in a skill saw and cause the cut to wander all over the place? Those blades cut by friction and not with the typical teeth.

A skill saw is for rough carpentry work such as framing. How's he going to install a door if it needs to be cut off at the bottom (either the jamb or the door or both which is common) or make the miter cuts for the trim?